Research shows no link among CCSVI and development of MS

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Postby sbr487 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:05 am

Its easy to go wrong but always difficult to get something right ...
I think even Dr. Sclafani took sometime before he started seeing issues in more patients ...
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it
- Max Planck
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Re: Research shows no link among CCSVI and development of MS

Postby HarryZ » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:19 am

scorpion wrote:Although I believe these study results were released a couple of months ago this article was recently printed in the Annals of Neurology journal. There should be more research results forthcoming.


Dr. Stephen Hauser is the neuro responsible for the publishing of this info. He is deeply involved in trying to tie genetics to the cause of MS. He is also a proponent of using immunosuppressive drugs like Tysabri and Rituxan to treat MS.

Why am I not surprised that he is behind the publishing of this info based on two small studies done very quickly and without consultation with Zamboni's group on their findings?

Some things never change in the world of MS medicine!!

Harry
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Re: Research shows no link among CCSVI and development of MS

Postby scorpion » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:36 pm

HarryZ wrote:
scorpion wrote:Although I believe these study results were released a couple of months ago this article was recently printed in the Annals of Neurology journal. There should be more research results forthcoming.


Dr. Stephen Hauser is the neuro responsible for the publishing of this info. He is deeply involved in trying to tie genetics to the cause of MS. He is also a proponent of using immunosuppressive drugs like Tysabri and Rituxan to treat MS.

Why am I not surprised that he is behind the publishing of this info based on two small studies done very quickly and without consultation with Zamboni's group on their findings?

Some things never change in the world of MS medicine!!

Harry



Yep that makes sense Harry. Since he is involved in genetic research he has a personal vendetta against CCSVI. If CCSVi proved legit his entire career in genetics would be ruined. Of course anyone who is a proponent of immunosupressive drugs would undoubtedly devote their time to undermining CCSVI. If CCSVI turned out to be real it would mean...... well he couldn't be a proponent of immunosuppressive drugs anymore!
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Postby erinc14 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:51 am

One author of the second study has received speaking honoraria from pharmaceutical companies.


http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc. ... 0459&cn=75
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Postby HarryZ » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:17 am

erinc14 wrote:One author of the second study has received speaking honoraria from pharmaceutical companies.


I've been following MS research for over 40 years now and this kind of situation has been going on all that time.

I"ll never forget the comment from a Burlex sales rep (provided Betaseron in Canada at the time) that I spoke with during one of their presentations. I had questioned the neurologist giving the seminar about Prokarin which was just emerging at the time. He of course bad mouthed Prokarin without knowing much if anything about it. After the presentation, I asked the sales rep (who had approached me BTW) why these docs wouldn't even consider trialling Prokarin. Her response very discretely to me...."because nobody will grease their palms first".

I couldn't believe what she was telling me but that just added to my already tainted view of the world of MS medicine!

Harry
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Postby Lyon » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:35 pm

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Postby HarryZ » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:41 pm

Not that "everybody is doing it" makes it better, but much more convincing than your 40 years of experience would be your naming for us one field of medicine in which the same thing isn't happening.

I can't hold it against you because I know you only have one foot on the "IR's are God" bandwagon, but if you get a chance, ask any IR what the ink pen they are currently using says on it.

By the damning definitions floating around thisisms every kind soul country doctor is "owed" by the pharmas in addition to the Neuros.


Of course everybody is lobbying, bribing, enticing...call it what you want...not only in the pharma world but in almost any kind of business. That's just the way it is.

What gets me, Bob, is that these pharma companies will pay people like Hauser or he, by himself, will get an article like this published, in order to discredit something like CCSVI. Most of us know that CCSVI has a long way to go before it can be determined if it is beneficial in the treatment of MS. Zamboni knows this and that's all he wants is for several researchers to get involved in the possibility.

What MS research doesn't need is the likes of Hauser or big pharma doing their best to torpedo the possibility of further research by writing articles like he did. Why not just say that more work is required and the concept is interesting as opposed to trying to discredit it.

Perhaps Biogen got it right when Dr. L. Steinman, the co-inventor of Tysabri, continued to caution the science world when he stated the drug could cause a lot of problems due to its very nature. Biogen simply told him to "shut up" and mind his own business. Maybe Zamboni should tell Hauser the same thing!

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Postby Lyon » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:53 pm

..
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Postby HarryZ » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:03 pm

[
I think Zamboni's got every right to and to be honest he would move up a couple of notches in my book if he did.

The world loves (but doesn't respect) "turn the other cheek" kind of guys because you get to punch them twice.


I'm sure he has already though about doing it :)

But in the world of medical hierarchy, Zamboni is a vascular surgeon who has dared to ruffle the waters of the established MS medical community. Doctors can be a strange lot....they will make all kinds of nasty comments about their colleagues in private or indirectly but rarely do it publicly or face to face.

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Postby Lyon » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:42 pm

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Postby HarryZ » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:57 pm

Hell, come to think of it that's human nature and without a doubt that's another thing that isn't specific to neuros.


It's even more apparent in medicine. Remember, my wife was in the medical field for 25 years and saw this very kind of conflict on a constant basis.
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scorpion - You obviously don't have ms

Postby leooreo » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:49 pm

I have read your debunking of ccsvi - only a non mser would comment as you do.


who sent you here and why?? Research won't stop and people will continue to get better and ....

Dr. Embrey needs to know - this site is corrupt. My postling to you yesterday vanished.
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Harry, what a pleasure to read your post - you nailed it

Postby leooreo » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:53 pm

As Dr. Dake said on his video (you tube) the neuros ... ARE INFLAMED.


Why all you neuros ... share pie.
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Re: scorpion - You obviously don't have ms

Postby L » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:26 pm

leooreo wrote:I have read your debunking of ccsvi - only a non mser would comment as you do.


who sent you here and why?? Research won't stop and people will continue to get better and ....

Dr. Embrey needs to know - this site is corrupt. My postling to you yesterday vanished.


Hey relax. It's not bad that Lyon expresses his opinions - it promotes debate and there's nothing wrong with that. Who knows who may be reading?

As for the forum being corrupt, the moderators are pro CCSVI so I should imagine Lyon or Scorpion would have more luck following that line. Relax. like you say, research continues and people are getting better. I think it will just take one positive, blinded study result to push Lyon over the edge. We just have to show a bit of patience and self control.
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Re: scorpion - You obviously don't have ms

Postby scorpion » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:36 pm

L wrote:
leooreo wrote:I have read your debunking of ccsvi - only a non mser would comment as you do.


who sent you here and why?? Research won't stop and people will continue to get better and ....

Dr. Embrey needs to know - this site is corrupt. My postling to you yesterday vanished.


Hey relax. It's not bad that Lyon expresses his opinions - it promotes debate and there's nothing wrong with that.
Who knows who may be reading?

As for the forum being corrupt, the moderators are pro CCSVI so I should imagine Lyon or Scorpion would have more luck following that line. Relax. like you say, research continues and people are getting better. I think it will just take one positive, blinded study result to push Lyon over the edge. We just have to show a bit of patience and self control.


Thanks for saying this L. I can't speak for Lyon but a couple of positive blinded studies would go a long way towards convincing me as well!
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