For Skeptics Only -Possibly Offensive Homeopathy Comparison-

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

For Skeptics Only -Possibly Offensive Homeopathy Comparison-

Postby concerned » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:40 pm

I'm finding a lot of similarities to CCSVI in some articles I've been reading on "Water Memory" and CCSVI. In the comments section of skeptical blog posts there are a lot of parallels to the reactions to the skeptics here.

First, the article from the huffington post health section that got me going in the first place:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-ullm ... 14619.html


From Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_memory

--this one more so for the comments, but it's a funny idea---

http://thelinc.co.uk/2010/02/sceptics-t ... is-a-hoax/
Last edited by concerned on Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
concerned
 

Advertisement

Postby ikulo » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:12 pm

I don't see the similarities. Do you mean there's similarity in just the debate between skeptics and supporters?
User avatar
ikulo
Family Elder
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: colorado

Postby concerned » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:36 am

ikulo wrote:I don't see the similarities. Do you mean there's similarity in just the debate between skeptics and supporters?


Yes.
concerned
 

Postby bluesky63 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:33 am

That was a wonderful article. "Water retains a memory . . . " -- absolutely beautiful and thought-provoking. Thank you so much for posting it. :-)
User avatar
bluesky63
Family Elder
 
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:00 pm

Re: For Skeptics Only -Possibly Offensive Homeopathy Compari

Postby scorpion » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:56 pm

concerned wrote:I'm finding a lot of similarities to CCSVI in some articles I've been reading on "Water Memory" and CCSVI. In the comments section of skeptical blog posts there are a lot of parallels to the reactions to the skeptics here.

First, the article from the huffington post health section that got me going in the first place:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-ullm ... 14619.html


From Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_memory

--this one more so for the comments, but it's a funny idea---http://thelinc.co.uk/2010/02/sceptics-take-mass-overdose-to-prove-homeopathy-is-a-hoax/


I found this quote relevant:

Another major logical fallacy used in this article is the argument from popularity­. The fact that homeopathy is the most popular alternativ­e remedy in Europe and that millions of people around the world use it doesn't give any evidence of whether or not it works.


People will believe a lot of things. It is human nature to try to understand­, often incorrectl­y, the world around us. People are often incapable of separating their experience from reality, failing to understand that correlatio­n does not imply causation. The scientific method and statistics were derived for The scientific method and statistics were derived for a reason, because people have an inherent ability to find patterns in completely random data
User avatar
scorpion
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:00 pm

Postby bluesky63 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:09 pm

This is great:

Benveniste stated: "It's like agitating a car key in the river, going miles downstream, extracting a few drops of water, and then starting one's car with the water." [7] At the time, Benveniste offered no theoretical explanation for the effect.

:-)
User avatar
bluesky63
Family Elder
 
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:00 pm

Postby concerned » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:55 pm

I like this part better (from wiki):


While some studies, including Benveniste's, have reported such an effect, double-blind replications of the experiments involved have failed to reproduce the results, and the concept is not accepted by the scientific community.[5] Liquid water does not maintain ordered networks of molecules longer than a small fraction of a nanosecond.[6]
concerned
 

Re: Homeopathy

Postby NHE » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:01 am

bluesky63 wrote:Benveniste stated: "It's like agitating a car key in the river, going miles downstream, extracting a few drops of water, and then starting one's car with the water." [7] At the time, Benveniste offered no theoretical explanation for the effect.


Me thinks he's been dipping into the d-lysergic diethylamide a bit too much.

NHE
User avatar
NHE
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:00 pm

Postby sou » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:31 am

Blah blah blah I am skeptic blah blah blah save the forum from the evil CCSVIers blah blah blah evidence based blah blah blah...

Yawn... Aren't you bored, yet? If you find a membrane, don't fix it. I wouldn't want to be your brain, though. I am lucky I am not.
Shortest joke: "We may not be able to cure MS but we can manage its symptoms."
User avatar
sou
Family Elder
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: Greece

Postby bluesky63 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:48 am

I have been doing a lot of writing, and this is great for inspiration. (Maybe I should explain that this is what I find so amazing about all this material.)

NHE, have you seen that little youtube clip showing the 1950s woman undergoing an official government test of a certain colorless, odorless substance dissolved in dihydrogen monoxide? :-)
User avatar
bluesky63
Family Elder
 
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:00 pm

Re: Homeopathy

Postby concerned » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:46 am

NHE wrote:
bluesky63 wrote:Benveniste stated: "It's like agitating a car key in the river, going miles downstream, extracting a few drops of water, and then starting one's car with the water." [7] At the time, Benveniste offered no theoretical explanation for the effect.


Me thinks he's been dipping into the d-lysergic diethylamide a bit too much.

NHE


Maybe I should get into homeopathy then! Although, when diluting said substance, it's best to use a ratio of 1:3 (acid:water) and agitation is completely unnecessary!
concerned
 

Postby concerned » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:51 am

sou wrote:Blah blah blah I am skeptic blah blah blah save the forum from the evil CCSVIers blah blah blah evidence based blah blah blah...

Yawn... Aren't you bored, yet? If you find a membrane, don't fix it. I wouldn't want to be your brain, though. I am lucky I am not.


Do you have anything to add to the discussion? Or are you happy just making personal attacks?

Are you saying you're glad you don't have a fully functional brain? It's not so bad, trust me. 8)
concerned
 

Postby Sotiris » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:53 pm

Why we have to teleport disbelief
New Scientist, 12 January 2011
Magazine issue 2795
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... elief.html

DNA waves and water
L. Montagnier1,2, J. Aissa2, E. Del Giudice3, C. Lavallee2, A.
Tedeschi4, and G. Vitiello5

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/101 ... 5166v1.pdf
User avatar
Sotiris
Family Elder
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: Greece

Postby dreddk » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:10 pm

Reminds me a bit of the bee sting therapy theory...some passionate advocates who were anecdotally convinced it worked. In the end, no effect http://www.neurology.org/content/65/11/1764.short

Ccsvi has more complexity but it is interesting that as the evidence mounts that it does not cause ms, and exists in non-msers, advocates are still convinced of the need for treatment.

Perhaps the homeopathy example shows that at the end of the day no evidence will be strong enough to convince the proponents of ccsvi
User avatar
dreddk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: South Pacific


Return to General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service