MS Pain

[CandyApple]

Hello, I am new here. I had MS for over 20 years with very few problems or symptoms.


Recently I started feeling pain around my breasts, it hurt to touch my sides or even around my diaphram, as if the muscles underneath were inflammed. I saw my doc and the pain has moved to my lower pain, stiff neck, arms hurt, legs hurt and I swear my fingers and feet hurt.

He is not sure what it is yetm but did mention something about nerves mis firering. I never had MS pain before, could this be what's going on?

Some areas are very sore to the touch, other just have a dull throbbing pain

[dlynn]

Hi CandyApple,
Welcome aboard! sorry to hear you have so much pain. Were you DX RRms, SPms, or PPms? The reason I ask is because I was dx with RR 19yrs ago, I was symptom free for the first 15yrs. except ON but that never interfered with daily life. After 15 yrs. I developed leg pain and lower back pain. Now the pain is pretty much everywhere. Someone told me, (if I recall correctly), it could be from lack of oxygenated blood to my muscles. I, at times, have very sensitive skin especially on my arms, hurts to the touch. I'm not on any meds except ASA 81mg and Plavix after my CCSVI (Chronic CerebroSpinal Venous Insufficiency) procedure. I deal with the pain because I choose not to take RX meds, I will take Ibuprofen if I'm having a really, really, rough day, but normally I just deal with it. I've read alot of pwMS have pain. I hope this has been helpful.
God bless!!

[jimmylegs]

ms patients are generally low in magnesium.

also low magnesium is well known to be implicated in vascular illness.

you could try boosting healthy magnesium rich foods (eg boil 1c spinach 3 min, or boil 1c swiss chard 3min), or a supplement, or an epsom salts bath (follow directions carefully) or go for a soak in an ocean if you're near one

magnesium supplements are tricky, i have found i can take the best most soluble/absorbable one, (magnesium glycinate) only before a meal, to get it pushed down out of my stomach and into the intestines ASAP.

if i want to take magnesium at bed time on an empty stomach i have to take magnesium citrate.

if you are currently on a nutritional / supplement regimen, you could post details and i'll see if anything stands out that might be messing with your magnesium status.

fyi things like stress, caffeine, exertion and *surgery* can lower your body's magnesium status.

[CandyApple]

I am low in magnesium, potassium and vit D, I thought it was because I am on blood pressure meds. My doctor is currently testing me for cushings disease and wanted to talk to me about some other things. My d-dimer has always been quite high. Current test was no different, 3.3 and my liver function test came out a little high as well. Guess we'll see soon enough.. I hope. I get bouts of random body pain, also sometimes my arms ache just lifting them, almost a burning sensation. I am not one to blame everything on MS, but I can't imagine what else it could be.

[jimmylegs]

ok you could throw in a zinc pill (ms patients are also low in zinc with implications for uric acid status) zinc will help your body store vit d3 from sun, food and supplements.

magnesium is very important. the timing for supplements is key - take some with d3, and some on its own at a separate time.

refractory potassium deficiency can be due to suboptimal magnesium. if you fix the magnesium problem the potassium should resolve on its own.

you can try get the magnesium up over 0.90 ('normal' range is 0.70-1.10 mmol/L and the bottom half of the range has a bunch of sick ppl in it).

make sure the zinc is in the high teens ie 18 umol/L. ('normal' range is 11.5-18.5 sooo wrong)

and ensure your serum vit d3 - 25(OH)D3 that is - is at least 150 nmol/L. ('normal' range for d3 is also way off) make sure you go no higher than 250 nmol/L though - increased risk of hypercalcaemia. that's how d3 as rat poison kills - it gives them all hypercalcaemia

hth! good luck getting sorted out.

[lovebug]

`Jimmylegs` If a MS patient also has Gout could it be due to low Zinc levels?

[jimmylegs]

heya! no, gout and ms are almost mutually exclusive.

generally gout patients have high uric acid, and ms patients have low normal uric acid. (i edited the wikipedia page on uric acid to include all the ms deets with citations).

it's quite unusual to see gout and ms as comorbidities. it would be pretty interesting to see the zinc and uric acid levels in a gout patient having an ms relapse.

[msmything]

Hi Candy apple, good for you with your relatively 'easy' ride for the past 20 years. Yes, certainly nerves can decide to misfire.......causing many of our symptoms. spasticity, tremors, stiffness, uncoordination, and PAIN. I have pretty global pain that has been non-responsive to alot of tx. So, I tried to rely solely on exercise for a long time, then I gave in to narcotics. The combo seems to do the trick.

Your description of your 1st pain site sounds like the MS Hug gone bad.

I take magnesium, have tried all formulations..I have to be careful, as it can cause too much relaxation in my bowels..leading to loss of bowel control. Take as directed...weight based if possible.

Good luck to you candya!

[lovebug]

`msmything` You and I sound like we have similar pain problems with NERVES gone haywire! I have tried so many different things to CALM the nerves with no pain relief. I even had the CCSVI surgery almost exactly 1 year ago and no pain relief either. Can I ask how much magnesium you take and is there anything else you suggest? Is magnesium the only thing you are currently taking? My dr. currently has me taking Lyrica as wells as Neurontin. I am not convinced that this is a smart thing to do.......But I am desperate now.......................

[jimmylegs]

the type of magnesium is indeed critical. magnesium oxide has a high percentage of elemental magnesium, but it is possibly the least soluble form. that's one that goes right through you for sure. i had some interesting times working through the various different forms to arrive at the recommendation above, ie glycinate before meals, and citrate if you have an empty stomach and plan to lie down (ie bedtime). lots of links in research between pain and ms and magnesium

The Magnesium-Deficiency Tetany Syndrome in Man
http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM196001282620401

Physiology of magnesium metabolism and the important role of magnesium in potassium deficiency
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4989902166

Magnesium Deficiency: A Cause of Heterogenous Disease in Humans (super full text)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 4.749/full

Neuromuscular
The presenting complaint of Mg deficiency may be due to neuromuscular hyperexcitability.(2,95) ...
In Mg deficiency, there is a lower threshold for axonal stimulation and increased nerve conduction velocity, as well as increased quantity of neurotransmitter released.(98,99) Mg is also involved in calcium handling by the muscle cell. With low intracellular Mg, calcium is more readily released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum and is reaccumulated more slowly.(100,101) This results in a muscle that is more readily contractible to a given stimulus and is less able to recover from contraction, i.e., tetany prone.

that last article is an awesome review with a wide variety of subheadings and 169 citations listed.

[lovebug]

`Jimmylegs` Thanks again for your input. The problem I always have with taking these supplements is what is the correct dosage for myself to take.. I am going to get magnesium glycinate today and give it another try. I have elemental magnesium at home.

[jimmylegs]

hi there lovebug, i have a bottle of magnesium glycinate 100mg of magnesium in 546mg of magnesium glycinate. i took one earlier today and i can still feel spasticity in my arm muscles. i am not interested in trying for 6 of these today but i need to get back into working my way up. so if i take two tomorrow and three the next etc we'll see how it goes. will you do the same and we can compare notes?

[jimmylegs]

lovebug, i just re-loaded my dosette so that by saturday i'll be up to 600mg magnesium from magnesium glycinate. i'll let you know how i go

[lovebug]

Jimmylegs---you will be ahead of me on this one since I could not find a pharmacy today that sold Magnesium Glyconate, only elemental magnesium. The pharmaist has to order it for me. The strength will be 500 mg./pill and it will take a few days to come in to the store. It is sold under the name MAGLUCATE. I live in Alberta. I have already tried taking the elemental magnesium form in the past but now I want to try magnesium gluconate only!!! Hey I keep trying to find some type of pain relief from my nerves gone haywire. My condition is actually called Allodynia now........

[jimmylegs]

maglucate is magnesium gluconate, not magnesium glycinate.

glycine is recommended for ms patients under the klenner protocol (item 15) http://www.townsendletter.com/Klenner/klenner4.htm

is there a nutrition house near you? there are several in calgary, one in medicine hat and one in red deer. they would have magnesium glycinate.

just watch out for that bisglycinate - might be just me, but the side effects i got from taking that before bed were nasty. *and* it took me forever to figure out :S

@candy - magnesium is good for blood pressure