Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

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Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby MSUK » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:27 pm

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The spark that ignites multiple sclerosis may come from within. A new study in mice points to normal intestinal bacteria as a trigger for the immune disorder.

In patients with multiple sclerosis, the body’s immune system attacks the brain, stripping away a protective sheath called myelin from nerve cells. This causes inflammation that leads to the disease. Although the exact causes of MS are not known, scientists generally agree that a genetic predisposition combines with one or more environmental triggers to set off the attack on the brain. The new study provides evidence that friendly bacteria may be one of those triggers.

Mice genetically engineered to develop multiple sclerosis–like symptoms don’t get the disease when raised without any bacteria in their guts, a research team from Germany reports online October 26 in Nature. But germ-free mice that were then colonized with intestinal bacteria quickly developed the disease, the team found. About 80 percent of mice with intestinal bacteria developed MS-like symptoms, but none of the germ-free mice did.... Read More - http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/3021
MS-UK - http://www.ms-uk.org/
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby Filmmaker » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:41 pm

this is the best article about the cause of MS, I just wonder when those reserchers will find how to kill these bacteria...
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby Leonard » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:20 am

Please read the last posting of 26 Oct on
general-discussion-f1/topic15188-225.html
The gut bacteria are mentioned there in the second to last paragraph as the cause of the second progressive phase.
I know it is all still a bit speculative at this point but the pieces seem to fit together so neatly..

And yes, I think it is known how these bacteria can be killed off by anti-biotics.
http://www.actrims.org/wp-content/uploa ... NAL_v2.pdf
This is from June 2010. See page 34

Or http://registration.akm.ch/einsicht.php ... N_ID=11599
See the third speech. This is from ECTRIMS/ACTRIMS Oct 2011.
Here minocycline comes into the puicture as well.
I have not seen any further details and would be very interested, if anyone can find.
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby Talisker » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:02 pm

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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby sou » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:09 am

I would consider it if I were a genetically modified mouse having an autoimmune disorder. I think this is not applicable to humans, though.

Yet another "give-me-funds" rubbish "MS research".
Shortest joke: "We may not be able to cure MS but we can manage its symptoms."
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby HarryZ » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:25 am

sou wrote:I would consider it if I were a genetically modified mouse having an autoimmune disorder. I think this is not applicable to humans, though.

Yet another "give-me-funds" rubbish "MS research".


Have to agree with you Sou. Up to now, there hasn't been one successful treatment that worked on that poor MS mouse that ended up working on humans.

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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby CureOrBust » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:22 am

http://www.hcplive.com/conference-coverage/actrims-2016/pediatric-ms-association-between-gut-microbiota-and-relapse-risk
Pediatric MS: Association Between Gut Microbiota and Relapse Risk
...The stool assessment showed 25% of cases relapsed within an estimated 166 days from baseline. A shorter relapse time was associated with an absence of Fusobacteria, but a higher level of Firmicutes, and presence of the Archaea Euryarchaeota.

After adjusting for age and other variables, only the Fusobacteria phylum remained significant. Its absence versus presence was associated with a 76% chance of an earlier relapse...
I don't remember ever reading these names on the side of any probiotic I've seen.
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby 1eye » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:45 am

I don't believe you will find that bacterium in any probiotic supplement. We have 1000 or more species in our guts. They are the missing pieces of the human genome. We have a symbiotic relationship with them. We depend upon them for our health. A study showed that Japanese MS patients are missing two species, and have an overabundance of one species. I believe it is this imbalance, not presence or absence of one species, that causes MS. I think MS is entirely curable using a microbiota transplant from a donor who does not have this imbalance. This has been demonstrated by a doctor in Australia. Of course he dares not pursue it, because of the huge revenue streams that could be disrupted. I think money stands in the way of a lot of progress.

It is necessary to be very careful about donor microbiota, since it is also known that one can "catch" things like obesity, and who knows what else, from a transplant. Perhaps only Olympic runners should donate. I read somewhere that a hunter-gatherer population in Australia was found to have an extra 500 species in their microbiome. Their diet is the key: they have many more kinds of fiber than we do. Does that sound familiar to Terry Wahl fans?

I believe we may be able to cure hundreds of diseases this way. Cancer? The scientific method will find many things in our guts. But I have recently lost faith in it, when I saw so-called human beings were trying to give MS to macaques (followed by euthanasia). I am ashamed to be an MS patient. Why don't they study their microbiomes? It is a race to the bottom, fueled by money.
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby 1eye » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:36 am

This was posted earlier, but in case you missed it:
http://sullivanweb.me/audio/FourThought-20111019-EdYongThePhilosophyOfBacteria.mp3

I had a pretty serious childhood disease when I was 12, that required months of antibiotics. I recovered, but between that and my bad eating habits later on, I probably had a badly messed-up microbiome.
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby 1eye » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:35 am

Does anybody know if there is any research being done in this area? Or is it just too unpleasant to think about? After all, who wants to think about poo? Most scientists would much rather inject macaques with retroviruses. Or euthanize them. Ick, poo? Let's not sanction any poo transplants because we might get sued. And who wants to get sued, over poo? The optics would, as synesthesia would have it, stink.

So let's keep euthanizing, and frig the consequences. But look, perhaps the problem is how it's being sold. It could be fun, giving all these mice poo transplants. We might someday graduate to giving macaques poo transplants. We'd never have to risk getting sued. A whole industry could be created, with the leavings of these activities.
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby PointsNorth » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:37 am

@1eye

One of my doctors ( Who has MS ) is in Scotland visiting a FMT clinic. Clearly 'Poo' is the future. Some Believe that poop banks are The new 'currency'.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1378 ... ff_in_NHS/
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby 1eye » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:15 pm

PointsNorth wrote:@1eye

One of my doctors ( Who has MS ) is in Scotland visiting a FMT clinic. Clearly 'Poo' is the future. Some Believe that poop banks are The new 'currency'.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1378 ... ff_in_NHS/


I think fighting Cdiff is a good idea since it's poisoning our hospitals. FMT is a good idea but it's difficult to get unless it's in a clinical trial setting. We should be able too get one in a clinic. Dr. Tom Borody has a protocol for it and it's sort of like an HSCT immune system reset. The existing microbiome is assaulted with antibiotics. The transplanted fecal matter mostly supercedes the previous microbiome. The existing microbiome, if it persists, will contain the complement of bacteria, with its unique balance, that existed during the onset and course of the chronic disease. If it is implicated in the disease pathology, it might have a host/graft conflict.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby ElliotB » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:03 pm

"Some Believe that poop banks are The new 'currency'"

Or, you can try to 'fix' gut bacteria the 'old fashioned way' through a diet rich in fermented/high pre-probiotic foods as well as foods that are exceptionally high in the nutrition we really need for optimal health.


Fusobacteria? Frankly, I did not know what it is. But now that I did some research, it is likely not one that you want to have in your gut and you probably don't want to consume it.
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby 1eye » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:47 am

The bacteria contained in our guts are not privy to infect other parts of our bodies. One never wants to directly consume large numbers of most of them. Fusobacteria are especially destructive in the mouth, as they are plaque forming.

Why wouldn't you want to have it in your gut?
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Re: Gut bacteria linked to Multiple Sclerosis

Postby thisiswater » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:45 pm

So who among us takes a probiotic and what kind?
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