Restless Legs All Over?

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Restless Legs All Over?

Postby Wendigo » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:40 pm

I will ask my neurologist Tuesday about this. I'm pretty sure I have restless leg syndrome which is getting worse. It seems to be happening all over my body now, in joints, I have to move my arms just like my legs to stop a jittery feeling. I don't know if this is MS related or not. It's a big part of why I have to knock myself out to get any sleep. It's almost insane making. Is there a known deficiency that could cause this? Thank you.
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Re: Restless Legs All Over?

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:12 pm

yes. magnesium. ensure serum level is at least 0.90 mmol/L.

if your mag level is low, as is seen in ms patients, it could be related to your RLS.

Magnesium therapy for periodic leg movements-related insomnia and restless legs syndrome : An open pilot study
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2327408
Periodic limb movements during sleep (PLMS), with or without symptoms of a restless legs syndrome (RLS), may cause sleep disturbances. The pharmacologic treatments of choice are dopaminergic drugs. Their use, however, may be limited due to tolerance development or rebound phenomena. Anecdotal observations have shown that oral magnesium therapy may ameliorate symptoms in patients with moderate RLS. We report on an open clinical and polysomnographic study in 10 patients (mean age 57±9 years; 6 men, 4 women) suffering from insomnia related to PLMS (n=4) or mild-to-moderate RLS (n=6). Magnesium was administered orally at a dose of 12.4 mmol in the evening over a period of 4-6 weeks. Following magnesium treatment, PLMS associated with arousals (PLMS-A) decreased significantly (17±7 vs 7±7 events per hour of total sleep time, p<0.05). PLMS without arousal were also moderately reduced (PLMS per hour of total sleep time 33±16 vs 21±23, p=0.07). Sleep efficiency improved from 75±12% to 85±8% (p<0.01). In the group of patients estimating their sleep and/or symptoms of RLS as improved after therapy (n=7), the effects of magnesium on PLMS and PLMS-A were even more pronounced. Our study indicates that magnesium treatment may be a useful alternative therapy in patients with mild or moderate RLS- or PLMS-related insomnia. Further investigations regarding the role of magnesium in the pathophysiology of RLS and placebo-controlled studies need to be performed.
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Re: Restless Legs All Over?

Postby Wendigo » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:13 pm

I see the word dopaminergic in there. Quitting smoking disturbs some process with dopamine until the brain gets back in gear. Not scientific but it's something about dopamine reuptake. It's interesting the restless legs and escalation to whole body happened after quitting. The Wellbutrin chemically is supposed to help with the dopamine somewhat.

I looked in the store - magnesium oxide and magnesium citrate are the only forms available here. A health food store might have more options. Magnesium citrate is, for me, the recipe to a night in the bathroom.
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Re: Restless Legs All Over?

Postby Wendigo » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:14 pm

I found an article searching this site from you, Jimmy, and I bought pumpkin and sunflower seeds. Can't hurt as long as I don't choke on 'em.

Thanks
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Re: Restless Legs All Over?

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:30 pm

yeah citrate is more absorbable than oxide but still, i hear ya re the bathroom.

do have a look in a specialty natural/health food place for the glycinate form.

also, you could try an epsom salts bath. that way you can just absorb through the skin.

if you do try the epsom salts bath, follow the directions - you can get too much of a good thing.

this reminded me of an old post about soreness after exercise, except when that exercise was surfing:
general-discussion-f1/topic13515.html#p131651

enjoy your seeds!
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Re: Restless Legs All Over?

Postby Wendigo » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:59 pm

Jimmy, I found mag glycinate at a Vitamin Shoppe. Interesting, it was the only form that was sold out, with the last bottle for me :) Each tab is 400 mg, take one twice a day. Does that sound like the right milligram amount? Is it known to upset the stomach? I have been enjoying the epsom salts baths - I found some that are scented, pricey compared to plain epsom salts though.

My neuro ordered ESR, CBC, CMP, B12, JC virus antibody, Factor VIII activity, vitamin D250 "Hz" (looked like Hz, which is Hertz, isn't it, an electrical value?), and UA with culture, all done today. An MRI will be done Wednesday without contrast - she said the MRI machine is so good, it's not needed here. I was going to get Neurontin for the restless legs but was put on a dexamethasone taper and she didn't want to have too many drugs on board at one time. I forgot to ask about magnesium & restless body. It was a 7-hour venture yesterday. Dexamethasone and my stomach didn't work out.

My legs are weaker recently, a change, left leg the most. Scary. I can ride the hell out of a bike I bought after quitting smoking but cannot stand up and pedal because legs are too weak. It's strange how walking can feel weak but not pushing pedals of a bike. Biking is wonderful though, like flying, and has to be great exercise. The neuro says exercise itself can produce a steroid effect.
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Re: Restless Legs All Over?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:52 pm

hey there! glad to hear you are enjoying the baths. and that you got the last bottle of mag glycinate! can you tell from the bottle how much 'elemental' magnesium is delivered in each tablet? it could be less than 100mg if the 400mg number is for the whole mag and glycine combo together. either way, whether you take two a day and get total 200mg, or take two a day and get 800mg, it's a heck of a lot better than not taking them!

i wouldn't take them both at once. spread them out and take before food to optimize absorption. are they making your stomach upset? the only effect i know about from magnesium is from forms like oxide and citrate which give you the trots.

the vitamin D250 Hz - the way it's normally written is 25(OH)2 D3. the brackets are missing around the hydroxy (OH) portion and the letter z is actually a little subscript number two because it's the 25-di-hydroxy form of vit d3.

don't overdo your magnesium inputs, it blocks the calcium contraction of muscles and can end up expressing as weakness. are they still restless but now weak as well?? would you be able to ask for a serum magnesium test next visit?

glad you're enjoying biking and yes! exercise is awesome :D
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Re: Restless Legs All Over?

Postby Wendigo » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:33 pm

I also take something named Mega-D3 made by Schiff - vitamin D3 (as cholcecalciferol) 5000 IU - and it has red wine complex blend 200 mg, which I think is probably antioxidant in nature. It includes resveratrol.

The mag glycinate (made by KAL) says magnesium (as magnesium glycinate) 400 mg. Other ingredients are cellulose, stearic acid and magnesium stearate. Interestingly, it says the word "vegetarian" on the front of the bottle, whatever that means.

I wasn't sure I could still balance and coordinate enough to ride a bike so got on my daughter's and took off. I just had to take the chance and go for it. There was no way someone could run next to me in case it didn't work out. I fell once on the street, a stupid fall. Gravity always wins.

I see my internist on the 21st of November and will ask him about about the magnesium testing. I am due for an annual physical at the New Year. He will probably be much more inclined to prescribe something for the restless limb problem but I am really concerned about my doctors not working as a team and ending up depending on the pharmacy to warn me about drug interactions.
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Re: Restless Legs All Over?

Postby BERNARD » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:50 pm

THERE IS AN EFFICIENT CONVENTIONNAL MEDECINE THAT MAY BE EMPLOYED BY PRACTITIANS ( THEY USE IN PARKINSON DESEASE)
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Re: Restless Legs All Over?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:21 am

hmm 5000 d3 daily? do you also take a calcium and zinc supplement? if you are taking 5000IU D3, you also need 1000mg calcium, 5-600mg mag, and 25-50mg zinc(balanced with 2mg copper).

ok so for the KAL product i checked an online label and i guess the pill itself weighs 400mg. some sources say magnesium glycinate is 18% elemental magnesium (makes sense looking at my kirkman capsules, 546mg yields 100mg elemental mag) so you'd be getting roughly 80 mg per KAL pill, so 160mg per day if used as directed.

you need about 400mg elemental magnesium per day (from food then supplements) when you're healthy, and more like 600mg if you're the typical ms patient needing to top up.

high magnesium foods: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... nt&dbid=75
(i eat raw sunflower seeds like they are going out of style, plus loads of chard and spinach :) )

why not ask for tests for serum d3, cal, mag, and zinc? i get worried when ppl high dose d3 without proper mineral balancing. because i did that before i learned and paid the price, for a long, scary time.
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Re: Restless Legs All Over?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:22 am

actually, also ask them to check serum ferritin while you're at it!
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