Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby CureOrBust » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:32 pm

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic18911.html
A related post regarding MS like disease induced in mice with diabetes
User avatar
CureOrBust
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2872
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Advertisement

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby Leonard » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:15 am

CureOrBust wrote:http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic18911.html
A related post regarding MS like disease induced in mice with diabetes

Thank you.
I quote from the link: They found that the influx of certain immune cells, called macrophages, from the young mouse helped resident stem cells restore effective remyelination in the old mouse’s spinal cord.
This is possibly one path one could go and explore further ...

But I think there is a more direct route to tackle the disease, rather than to restore after things went wrong. I believe that the Vitamin D and in particular a dysfunctioning of the Vitamin D Receptor (VDR) due to commensal intestinal bacteria is the culprit of demyelination, slowing down both oligodendrocytes and Schwann cells to function properly and demyelination as a result.

This article makes the point: Autophagy [that is macro- micro- and chaperon mediated phagy] contributes to anti-aging, antimicrobial defense, and tumor suppression. The functions of autophagy overlap remarkably with those of the Vitamin D/VDR signaling.
http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Shaopi ... infection/

This is also the point where a low glucose diet and things like metformin come into the picture, see for example
http://intelegen.com/nutrients/insulin_ ... weight.htm
The Swank (low fat) diet may have precisely this effect and that is why it is working for MS.
I believe this was also Lynda's point.
User avatar
Leonard
Family Elder
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Brussels, Capital of Europe

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby lyndacarol » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:34 pm

Although gwa posted this Medical News Today article more than three years ago in the General Discussion forum, I think the second paragraph with its mention of adiponectin and insulin sensitivity requires that it be added to this "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?" thread as well: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/120456.php

Medical News Today
Link Found Between Bisphenol A And Metabolic Syndrome In Human Tissue
07 Sep 2008

New research from the University of Cincinnati (UC) implicates the primary chemical used to produce hard plastics - bisphenol A (BPA) - as a risk factor for metabolic syndrome and its consequences.

In a laboratory study, using fresh human fat tissues, the UC team found that BPA suppresses a key hormone, adiponectin, which is responsible for regulating insulin sensitivity in the body and puts people at a substantially higher risk for metabolic syndrome.

Metabolic syndrome is a combination of risk factors that include lower responsiveness to insulin and higher blood levels of sugar and lipids. According to the American Heart Association, about 25 percent of Americans have metabolic syndrome. Left untreated, the disorder can lead to life-threatening health problems such as coronary artery disease, stroke and type 2 diabetes.

Nira Ben-Jonathan, PhD, and her team are the first to report scientific evidence on the health effects of BPA at environmentally relevant doses equal to "average" human exposure. Previous studies have primarily focused on animal studies and high doses of BPA.

They report their findings in the Aug. 14, 2008, online edition of the journal Environmental Health Perspectives. This scientific data comes just before a key Federal Drug Administration meeting about the safety of the chemical in consumer products scheduled for Sept. 16, 2008.

"People have serious concerns about the potential health effects of BPA. As the scientific evidence continues to mount against the chemical, it should be given serious attention to minimize future harm," says Ben-Jonathan, a professor of cancer and cell biology at UC who has studied BPA for more than 10 years.

"Experimenting with human tissue is the closest we can come to testing the effects of BPA in humans. It's a very exciting breakthrough because epidemiological studies looking at BPA effects on humans are difficult since most people have already been exposed to it," she adds.

Scientists estimate that over 80 percent of people tested have measurable BPA in their bloodstream. The UC study was designed to mimic a realistic human exposure (between 0.1 and 10 nanomolar) so that a more direct correlation between human exposure and health effects could be drawn.

To conduct this study, the UC team collected fresh fat tissue from Cincinnati patients undergoing several types of breast or abdominal surgery. These samples included three types of fat tissue: breast, subcutaneous and visceral (around the organs).

Tissue was immediately taken to the laboratory and incubated with different concentrations of BPA or estrogen for six hours to observe how the varied amounts of BPA affected adiponectin levels. The effects of BPA were then compared to those of estradiol, a natural form of human estrogen.

They found that exposing human tissues to BPA levels within the range of common human exposure resulted in suppression of a hormone that protects people from metabolic syndrome.

"These results are especially powerful because we didn't use a single patient, a single tissue source or a single occurrence," she adds. "We used different fat tissues from multiple patients and got the same negative response to BPA."

----------------------------
Article adapted by Medical News Today from original press release.
----------------------------

UC's Eric Hugo, PhD, Terry Brandebourg, PhD, Jessica Woo, PhD, J. Wesley Alexander, MD, and Christ Hospital surgeon Jean Loftus, MD, participated in this study. The study was funded by grants from the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences.

Source: Amanda Harper
University of Cincinnati

Article URL: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/120456.php



I am now intrigued with adiponectin. Could I be deficient in this hormone?
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby lyndacarol » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:50 pm

And thanks to NHE's General Discussion posting some time ago:

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art ... ekey=17982

Source: http://www.medterms.com
MedTerms is the Medical Dictionary of MedicineNet.com

Definition of Adiponectin
Adiponectin: A protein hormone produced and secreted exclusively by adipocytes (fat cells) that regulates the metabolism of lipids and glucose. Adiponectin influences the body's response to insulin. Adiponectin also has antiinflammatory effects on the cells lining the walls of blood vessels.

High blood levels of adiponectin are associated with a reduced risk of heart attack. Low levels of adiponectin are found in people who are obese (and who are at increased risk of a heart attack).

Adipocytes produce and secrete a number of proteins, including leptin, adipsin, properdin, and tumor necrosis factor (TNF). An adipose tissue-specific factor was isolated and termed APM1 (AdiPose Most abundant gene transcript 1). The protein product of APM1 is adiponectin. The APM1 gene maps to chromosome 3q27.
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby lyndacarol » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:59 pm

I am consolidating this mention of AICAR with this thread on insulin – they seem to be related and it makes it easier for me to find the information:

post182623.html?hilit=without%20exercise#p182623

The following information about the hormone irisin fits here in the same way:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/240325.php

in the CCSVI forum, pairOdime posted very good information on the newly discovered hormone irisin:

post185031.html#p185031

Here is some very interesting information on a newly discovered hormone named Irisin. Some are suggesting possible implications for neurodegenerative conditions as well....very interesting.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=irisin

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/va ... 10777.html

http://scienceblog.com/51556/scientists ... rn-energy/


Quote:
The scientists said their findings merely scratch the surface of irisin’s multiple effects. They are continuing to explore the hormone’s possible benefits in metabolic diseases like diabetes, insulin resistance, and obesity, which constitute a growing epidemic around the world, as well as neurodegenerative illnesses like Parkinson’s disease.
Spiegelman added that as growing evidence implicates obesity and physical inactivity in cancer development, it’s conceivable irisin-based drugs may have value in prevention and treatment of the disease.

Nature. 2012 Jan 11. doi: 10.1038/nature10777. [Epub ahead of print]

A PGC1-α-dependent myokine that drives brown-fat-like development of white fat and thermogenesis.

Boström P, Wu J, Jedrychowski MP, Korde A, Ye L, Lo JC, Rasbach KA, Boström EA, Choi JH, Long JZ, Kajimura S, Zingaretti MC, Vind BF, Tu H, Cinti S, Højlund K, Gygi SP, Spiegelman BM.

Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and Harvard Medical School, 3 Blackfan Circle, CLS Building, Floor 11, Boston, Massachusetts 02115, USA.

Abstract
Exercise benefits a variety of organ systems in mammals, and some of the best-recognized effects of exercise on muscle are mediated by the transcriptional co-activator PPAR-γ co-activator-1 α (PGC1-α). Here we show in mouse that PGC1-α expression in muscle stimulates an increase in expression of FNDC5, a membrane protein that is cleaved and secreted as a newly identified hormone, irisin. Irisin acts on white adipose cells in culture and in vivo to stimulate UCP1 expression and a broad program of brown-fat-like development. Irisin is induced with exercise in mice and humans, and mildly increased irisin levels in the blood cause an increase in energy expenditure in mice with no changes in movement or food intake. This results in improvements in obesity and glucose homeostasis. Irisin could be therapeutic for human metabolic disease and other disorders that are improved with exercise.

PMID:
22237023
[PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

Of course, there is no substitute for a proper diet and exercise when possible.
Last edited by lyndacarol on Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby lyndacarol » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:07 pm

A video with information on functional medicine practitioners:
First up is Dr. Mark Hyman on diabesity; his opinion is that food is the best medicine; he urges 2 tests (Insulin Response Test & NMR Cholesterol Test); he states that insulin, the fat-storage hormone, causes belly fat and inflammation. He also discusses sensitivity to foods (dairy, gluten, corn, eggs, soy, etc.) which may also cause inflammation.

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/dr-oz-s- ... tives-pt-2

Thanks to want2bike we have this presentation from Dr. Mark Hyman on Functional Medicine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAhu6oa_ ... ure=relmfu

Although Dr. Wendy Warner, the fourth and last of these Functional Medicine doctors, is discussing weight gain/menopause, I think Dr. Oz's animation of the weight gain flowchart (about .30 in the video) has value to those of us with MS:

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/dr-oz-s- ... tives-pt-6

We know that inflammation is involved in MS; I'm sure that excess insulin is also involved; visceral fat (internal fat around the organs) secretes cytokines (a.k.a. adipokines) as well as the estrogen Dr. Warner focuses on. Perhaps we have to interrupt the flow at several points: foods to reduce inflammation, diet to reduce insulin secretion, diet and exercise to reduce fat and the resulting cytokines. This may be the mechanism of Dr. Wahls' program.

I think we all need a Functional Medicine (disease detective) doctor – how do we find one?
Last edited by lyndacarol on Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:22 pm

Adiponectin was mentioned on The Dr. Oz Show this week as being the prime ingredient in raspberry ketones:

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/miracle- ... ner-bottle

Recommended dosage: 200 mg daily (start with 100 mg at breakfast, then 100 mg at lunch)

In addition to the video link above, I will add the link for the written article here:

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/rasberry ... ience-says
Last edited by lyndacarol on Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby Leonard » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:45 am

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19209185

MS is a multi-facetted disease.
One factor is the glucose metabolism.
The link above refers to Metabolic and physiologic improvements from consuming a paleolithic, hunter-gatherer type diet.

From the conclusion: Even short-term consumption of a paleolithic type diet improves BP and glucose tolerance, decreases insulin secretion, increases insulin sensitivity and improves lipid profiles ..

Many years of ccsvi have significantly weakened glucose transport across the BBB. see for instance: general-discussion-f1/topic15188.html

Under these conditions, optimizing insulin sensitivity would seem an absolute necessity. High peaks of insulin then are devastating while low levels will increase insulin sensitivity of the cells.

The working mechanism of Metformin is not well understood, many effects have been suggested.
But most important in this particular context is the fact that Metformin keeps the blood sugar level down and -I guess- insulin levels will be kept much lower as well.
And this will help maintain or improve the sensitivity of your cells to insulin.
User avatar
Leonard
Family Elder
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Brussels, Capital of Europe

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby CaveMan » Tue May 01, 2012 12:12 am

Firstly thank Lyndacarol for starting this thread and also for replying to my Intro, checked out the links and then followed your sneaky hint to this thread.
Sorry about the post length, hope there is some value in it.
I am still trying to work my way through the mountain of info, have been trying to read all the dietary threads, this is a primary interest for me, had a quick look at the treatment section & meds, felt like a stranger in a strange land trying to comprehend a strange language, hasty retreat to safer teritory, diet & general discussion.
I have read this thread from start to end, well did scan over some bits, and haven't followed all links either, great info, my input may be a bit scattered as I am a latecomer to the discussion, but here are some things, in point form.

The insulin issue, definetly a critical part of the equation, but like all the manifested symptoms & effects, hard to know what came first.

I had done quite a bit of reading before I got onto this site and even though their was no definitive claim I could put my finger on, I just had this strong feeling that Dairy was closely involved with the primary causes of the antibody response, so seeing Nicks response half way through, and the other day reading through the BB diet thread, think it was a reference to the Jelenik protocol adding dairy to their banned list (probably old info for most of you) just rang true. Not to say that dairy consumption had to be excessive as I believe the body is weakened by other factors and the dairy just provides the appropriate protein for the autoimmune response. So from that, although I think Swank needs credit for the work he did, I feel the interpretation of the original data needs to be reconsidered, I don't think saturated animal fats are necesarily the culprit, think that may be a "Red Herring", there is more smoke at the Dairy farm than the Beef ranch.

The discussion on the Inuit is not alone, there have been a number of other studies done on the excessive rate of Type 2 Diabetes through indegenous populations, when these individuals were returned to a more traditional diet, some had complete remission & most others could go to a significantly reduced dose, the time duration in most cases was about 6 months I believe, it has been done with the Inuit, Australian Aborigines & others that I can't recall. the other more relevant Indigineous population is the Sami, indegenous inhabitants of Norway, they have virtually no incidence of MS at all, but the rest of the population shows a north/south as well as an inland (Dairy) / coastal(Fish) gradient. The Sami's traditional diet was either Reindeer & berries or Fish & Berries, they lived alongside the later Imigrants (Norwegians for want of a better word) for many centuries, but never took up their farming, dairy or diatary habits.

Another thing that may be related is in utero exposure, this may possibly add to the causal variety of symptomatic expression, I believe it has been documented a number of times, but the one I'm most familiar with was the "Dutch starvation babies". The children that were concieved during the starvation period in the later part of WW2 had something like 6 times the incidence of Diabetes 2 & associated issues, yet those born just before, of concieved just after that period had the same incidence as normal populations around the world. This particular factor may not be related to MS, but there may also be similar issues at play with MS.

The whole Hypothalmus Pituitary "other vital organ" axis, my studies have usually seen the thyroid as the third organ, in that case the Thyroid does not have any self regulation ability, the regulation occurs from the Pituitary and Hypothalmic response. Hypothalmus secretes the Thyrotropin Release Hormone (TRH) into the Pituitary, which in turn releases Thyrotropin aka Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH), this then acts on the thyroid TSH receptors which produces thyroid hormones. The Pituitary also has TSH receptors which act in a closed loop regulation system, later in my shearching I also found out that the body is riddled with TSH receptors, brain, bone, muscle & most major organs, but their function is unknown. When the thyroid autoimmune antibodies are activated the primary symptom is the thyroid, overactivity, underactivity it is related to the Antibodies attaching to the Thyroid receptors, hence preventing TSH reaching the receptor and breaking the regulation loop, often they also attach in the pituitary and prevent TSH production as well. So I wondered what the role of TSH was elswhere in the body, and some individuals, particularly the Hypo can go for years with no TSH, their Thyroid hormone levels are maintained by suplimentation, but even though they are "kind of ok" they go on with a multitude of nagging symptoms.
I wonder what else happens in the pituitary or other vital control functions with MS or other autoimmune diseases, how many are being blocked, BTW my partners Endo doesn't really consider the pituitary as important in considerations of thyroid disease, yet a quick google puts it at the centre of the story. I did see some references to the Growth hormone in the threads, don't understand that fully, need to go back and do some re reading.

The other thing I would like to raise is Acetyl L Carnitine, we included it in my partners program for a variety of reasons, fatigue, brain fog, thyroid hormone modulation and others, she and others we know benefited from using it. In relation to the discussion here, no please correct me if I am wrong, but in simplistic terms:
The body basically has two major energy pathways, glucose & fat, the glucose provides the instant power, emergency power, but baseload power, which is the majority, comes from fatty acids. When we swing to a majority carbohydrate diet, that does two things, it swings us to the glucose side more and also deprives us of the amino acids to produce carnitine which is essential to transport fatty acids across cell membranes to the mitochondria, essentially "someone stole the wheelbarrow to take coal to the boiler". This added demand on the insulin/glucose system is ok for an emergency, but not on a long term basis as it was never designed for it, so eventually other systems also begin to suffer. One of the key factors in obesity are carbs & sugars, the insulin system can put glucose into storage by conversion to fat, but the Carnitine side has been weakened so we are not effective at drawing on those fat stores, hence as soon as blood sugar levels fall starvation hits even though we may be carrying 50kg of pure energy, we don't have the key to get it out. So at least for the early stages of a diet change, or even if you aren't changing diet Carnitine supplimentation may be beneficial for some individuals, the other point being if your body is purely relient on the "emergency" supply of energy what kinds of emergency measures does it put in place for a survival plan? As an individual or society the first thing would be rationing, limit non emergency maintenance, eventually the entire body starts to fall into disrepair, so is it a case that by being on a high carb diet our body is always teetering on the fight/flight position? The body is a wonderful instrument and has multiple back up systems, but we have lost the ability to hear when a system is failing and we are going to emergency power, so we just go on our merry way till one day.
I have often used the "castle siege" analogy in Graves disease discussions where you have a large castle with multiple defenses besieged by an enemy, every time a defense is breached a messenger is sent to the great hall where the almighty emperror (Ego) is feasting and entertaining his/her court of tales of past glories and future conquests, completely self indulgent, dismisses the messenger, can't you see I am dealing with very important business here, this happens repeatedly over the years, until finally the enemy has broken through and runs amok in the great hall and the Ego now full of self pity, still completly self indulgent asks how could this happen to me.
I do recognise that a certain portion of this family of diseases is due to genetic predisposition, but the rest is environment and that is something that can be changed, not just diet, but attitude, habits etc.
A lot of individuals argue why deprive yourself if nothing has been scientifically proven, well modern medicine is practicing the research of 50 years ago, most of us will be dead when current research has been fully proven and is applied daily in medicine, so if you don't try to understand how to listen to your body, don't expect your doctor to do any better and in addition to that I also believe that attitude plays a vital role, the difference between running toward something vs running away from something, same physical expenditure of energy, but one is a positive expression with a target and the other is a negative expression that is aimless.

Congrats if you got this far.
I am just an interested individual trying to crack the autoimmune nut.
Partner has Graves Disease, 5 years, showing good test results, looking forward to potential remission in the near future.
3 friends have MS, 1 just recently diagnosed, severity 7/10.
CaveMan
Family Elder
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:11 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby Leonard » Sat May 05, 2012 12:05 pm

User avatar
Leonard
Family Elder
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Brussels, Capital of Europe

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby CaveMan » Mon May 07, 2012 3:30 am

I think the Gut Microbiota definately plays a major role, just on a side line I had a quick google the other day on Human Bacteria symbiosis, Each of us has 10 trillion bacteria on/in our bodies, they outnumber our cells 10:1, there are so many types researchers have given up trying to name them, we do not all share the same mix, they communicate with our own cells via chemical signals and it goes on, question being are we an organism with benevolant bacteria or a living ecosystem. So with the Gut Biota, yes a vital part of the equation, how to address this, researchers have no idea, so my approach is what is the environment that both ourselves and our bacterial friends find favourable.
I have read this thread and Leonards and a number of others and been searching for other information, I have a paleo bent, but am not fanatical, I see these issues much like a recipe thet people have modified by substitution and process change then ask why it went wrong. The only way to determine if the recipe is ok is to go back to the core ingredients, use the right procedure and see if it works properly. Currently the closest match I can find for the modern man recipe gone wrong is to go back to the Paleo ingredients and process and see if it works.
I have become interested in the role of Leptin in the body and the issues of Lectins (gluten & assoc.) will start another thread on this, but I think it may add more to the key.
I am just an interested individual trying to crack the autoimmune nut.
Partner has Graves Disease, 5 years, showing good test results, looking forward to potential remission in the near future.
3 friends have MS, 1 just recently diagnosed, severity 7/10.
CaveMan
Family Elder
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:11 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby CureOrBust » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:14 am

Sorry if this has been covered before. But, if we were to suppose that insulin resistance is a causative factor for MS, would treatment with drugs used to reverse Insulin Resistance be measurably beneficial to MS? eg metformin, thiazolidinediones or exenatide (marketed as Byetta)

ie could someone simply try these drugs and see if their MS improves?
User avatar
CureOrBust
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2872
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby Leonard » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:58 am

I try to minimize my consumption of sugar and fructose (drinks).
This article that I found on the other thread that Lyndacarol recently started on the 'fat switch' is not without its merits:
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitnes ... artTest_A1

And I take metformin and glimperide.
I am convinced that they have synergetic effects, and work via the gut.
I consider it as an alternative for feces transplantation (which I see as a last resort..).

Since I stopped sugar intake and started medication, I lost 8 kg of weight, 10% of my weight.
And guess what: the fatty belly is gone :)
I did not expect this, this was not the intent, but it just happened..
And the feces improved strongly; it already had somewhat improved when I started with a low fat diet several years ago but now the improvement was remarkable, in particular after I started with the glimperide..

And some other things did improve: I am dreaming a lot, just like was the case when I was just liberated from my neck venous insufficiency, but now it lasts...; and I am sweating again, you won't believe... it demonstrates changes to the metabolism... and I feel generally good...

But the short-term effect on the motor function is not directly positive.
My explanation for this is: The supply of easy glucose to the cells will be slowed; and so the charging of the ion pump.
I know that if I would drink a few bottles of coke, the motor function would improve fast but that it would have a reverse effect on my disease in the long run (as it would increase insulin resistance).

But I remain convinced about the long term effects, i.e. that the course set will enhance my insulin sensitivity (and with that probably also improve the functioning of other receptors).
And that in the long term, the motor functions will stabilise and improve.
Perhaps my believe in this is so strong that the 'placebo' effect takes control here - I am kidding :)

But you have to bear with me for a little longer, probably another half year to a year...
For diabetes 2, it works - I have seen it with my dad, so I see no reason why it would not work for me (as I consider my MS to be fully diabetes 2 related).

Further information on metformin, glimperide and insulin sensitivity and the role of the gut can be found on this thread, in particular the last 4-5 pages.
general-discussion-f1/topic15188.html
User avatar
Leonard
Family Elder
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Brussels, Capital of Europe

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby lyndacarol » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:15 pm

CureOrBust wrote:Sorry if this has been covered before. But, if we were to suppose that insulin resistance is a causative factor for MS, would treatment with drugs used to reverse Insulin Resistance be measurably beneficial to MS? eg metformin, thiazolidinediones or exenatide (marketed as Byetta)

ie could someone simply try these drugs and see if their MS improves?


Here are my thoughts: I do believe that insulin resistance (hyperinsulinemia) is a causative factor for MS. I do not know of any drugs that will reverse insulin resistance; I am given to understand that diet is the only treatment. It is also my understanding that metformin works with a different mechanism from thiazolidinediones (TZD's) or Byetta – metformin improves insulin sensitivity; TZD's and exenatide reduce blood glucose by forcing the pancreas to produce MORE insulin (More insulin is NOT what we want, in my opinion.).

I think the first step would be to find out if you have an elevated insulin level by having a fasting blood insulin test. If a glucose test was also performed and found to be high (At the 126 level, diabetes would be diagnosed.), you could probably persuade a physician to prescribe metformin – I am unsure if MS symptoms would improve in a short time, but I am all for experimentation if it will cause no harm. Metformin (commercially sold as Glucophage) is the generic and has been around for YEARS; I think it would be safe, especially under a doctor's supervision.

By the way, Avandia (rosiglitazone – withdrawn because of heart problems) and most recently Actos (pioglitazone, another one of the TZD's – suspected of causing bladder cancer) are currently the targets of MANY lawsuits. I think the excess insulin they stimulate is causing both heart problems and bladder cancer.

Edited later – Now I have found additional information: http://www.dovepress.com/clinical-utili ... mendation1

I was surprised by this sentence: "Complementary combination therapy with sitagliptin–metformin lowers glucose via enhancement of insulin secretion, suppression of glucagon secretion, and insulin sensitization." Since metformin does not enhance insulin secretion, but does improves sensitivity, the sitagliptin must be responsible for the action of enhanced secretion.
Last edited by lyndacarol on Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby Mizbhavin34 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:43 pm

I am highly inclined to buy into the insulin theory because in 2003 I was diagnosed with PCOS which one of the issues with that is an increased insulin production. And here we are in 2012 and now I have a doctors appointment in a week for multiple sclerosis symptoms that I'm convinced are trying to drive me crazy. Thank you lyndacarol for your post because that's the first thing I've come across during my research that has made sense to me. Idk if one has to do with the other, but it certainly gives me something to check out.
Mizbhavin34
Newbie
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:27 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DougL