Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby cervocuit » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:15 am

From a microbiome point of view:

Microbiome Changed by Gluten Increases Incidences of Type 1 Diabetes
http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2013-rst/7777.html
There also was a measurable impact of the gluten on the bacterial flora of the mice that might be one way in which gluten could affect the risk for diabetes.
User avatar
cervocuit
Family Member
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: France

Advertisement

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby Kronk » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:52 pm

The authors of this study assume the MS has cause the glucose issues but perhaps it is the glucose/ insulin issue that has caused the MS?

http://www.neurology.org/content/48/6/1566.short
Kronk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby lyndacarol » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:56 pm

Without subscribing, I am unable to see the full text of this study. My disappointment is that no one studying any aspect of MS thinks to test and establish insulin levels. In this study I hypothesize that the "global CMRGlu was significantly lower in both MS groups compared with CON [control group]" because the glucose was depressed in the MS group by excess insulin. I have found no researchers yet who believe that glucose/insulin might cause MS, but that is MY belief.

Thanks for posting this link, Kronk. Although this thread has become almost unmanageably large, I find it logical to have related information altogether in one place.
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2089
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby Leonard » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:19 am

Hi Lynda,

I share your view that insulin is involved.
In fact, it was through your thinking and interaction with yourself that I started the topic on A new concept for MS in Jan 2011.

But besides the insulin factor, I think MS is a broader issue of endocrine dysregulation.
Where at some point in the disease process, the HPA axis gets affected establishing a vicious circle.
http://syontix.com/the-gut-brain-axis-h ... enal-axis/

I also believe that stimulating insulin may help to feed the crying cells, a bit contrary to your believe.
I still take some metformin and glimperide, for what it is worth...

Leo
User avatar
Leonard
Family Elder
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: Brussels, Capital of Europe

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby lyndacarol » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:11 pm

With its mention of dysfunctions in insulin receptor signaling being exacerbated by a deficiency in Omega-3s, I believe the following article may belong here:

'Metabolic syndrome' in the brain: deficiency in omega-3 fatty acid exacerbates dysfunctions in insulin receptor signaling and cognition

http://drperlmutter.com/wp-content/uplo ... -brain.pdf

In the Introduction, page 2486:

"Given that insulin can penetrate the brain–blood barrier, it can have a wide range of brain actions, which may largely depend on the signalling through its receptors."
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2089
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby lyndacarol » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:27 am

Although this information was discussed here about a year ago (April 28, 2013), I can't shake the feeling that IGF-1 is important. However, I have focused on the "growth factor" or growth hormone aspect; but now I think the key lies in the "insulin-like" part.

This idea was expressed (page 67) in the Winter 08-09 issue of the MS Society publication, Momentum,

The growth factor IGF-1 had shown some success in promoting myelin formation, so a Society-funded team led by Stephane Genoud, PhD (The Salk Institute, La Jolla, Calif.), injected it into mice with EAE. The injections actually worsened the disease. (Journal of Neuroimmunology 2005; 168:40-5) Such failures are important to pinpoint before they affect people with MS in clinical trials.


Here is the abstract of the work mentioned:


1: J Neuroimmunol. 2005 Nov;168(1-2):40-5. Epub 2005 Aug 24. Links
Targeted expression of IGF-1 in the central nervous system fails to protect mice from experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis.Genoud S, Maricic I, Kumar V, Gage FH.
Laboratory of Genetics, The Salk Institute, 10010 N Torrey Pines Rd, La Jolla, CA 92037, USA.

Insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) has been identified as a critical molecule in the induction of myelination in the central nervous system (CNS). Systemic injection of IGF-1 has been shown to have a varied and transiently protective effect on the clinical course of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE). Since systemic IGF-1 can also modulate peripheral immune lymphocytes, we examined whether a sustained and local delivery of IGF-1 into the spinal cord would have any influence on the chronic course of EAE in C57/BL6 mice. The capability of adeno-associated virus (AAV) to be retrogradely transported efficiently from muscle to motor neurons of the spinal cord was used to overcome the difficulty routinely encountered when attempting chronic delivery of molecules into the CNS. We demonstrate that AAV-mediated delivery of IGF-1 in CNS did not have any beneficial effect on the clinical course of EAE. Injection of AAV-IGF1 after induction of the disease worsened the clinical symptoms. Furthermore, CNS expression of IGF-1 did not affect the pathogenic anti-MOG T cell response, as examined by proliferation and cytokine secretion. Thus, enhanced expression of IGF-1 in the CNS during inflammation does not have a significant effect on myelination. These data have important implications for the potential use of IGF-1 in the treatment of multiple sclerosis.

PMID: 16120466 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

This seems to indict insulin again: on March 5, 2014 Dr. Oz spoke with oncologist Marleen I. Meyers, M.D., who thinks that no dairy with artificial hormones should be consumed (rbGH-recombinant bovine growth hormone is given to increase a cow’s milk output, but it also increases IGF-1 in milk, which is linked to breast, prostaste, colon cancer – cancers have increased numbers of insulin receptors on the cells) [Could this be the reason that elimination of dairy often improves MS symptoms?]
http://www.doctoroz.com/episode/everyda ... wont-touch

The slideshow explains this again: http://www.doctoroz.com/slideshow/foods ... llery=true
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2089
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby Kronk » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:42 pm

lyndacarol wrote:Could this be the reason that elimination of dairy often improves MS symptoms?


What study or evidence did you find to support this?
I quit almost all dairy a year ago but I am interested if there are any facts to support my choice.
Kronk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:59 am

I hadn't had dairy in over a decade when I was dxd.. dairy consumption does draw on a few nutritional resources, which would be less strained on a dairy free diet. however, elimination doesn't fix any other bad habits that might have made dairy handling troublesome in the first place.

I don't have a lot of time today but here's one related study:
Effect of foodstuffs on the absorption of zinc sulfate.
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/1091398
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9225
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby lyndacarol » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:32 am

Kronk wrote:
lyndacarol wrote:Could this be the reason that elimination of dairy often improves MS symptoms?


What study or evidence did you find to support this?
I quit almost all dairy a year ago but I am interested if there are any facts to support my choice.

I cannot cite a study that supports the elimination of dairy in the diet. I was trying to refer to the frequent choice by many here at TIMS to be dairy-free.

The largest proportion of US dairy is not affected by this hormone rbGH; it is not allowed in many European countries; and it is probably not available at all elsewhere. IF this is a component of the problem, it is only one possible contributing factor for some.

Personally, I have not been a milk-drinker since about age 10. Then, I was subjected to the "butter-is-bad-for-you" idea when margarine (with its much worse trans fats) was ubiquitous – trans fats stimulate increased insulin production! In retrospect, my diet pre-MS was high in EVERYTHING causing insulin secretion (including other dairy, like ice cream and cheese; hormones were not the issue – but also wheat, refined carbs...sugar is the issue). My pancreas was habituated to hyperinsulinemia; it is like a set point that I cannot move down to 3 and keep there.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2089
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby Kronk » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:47 am

Interesting... will be paying attention to see what you come up with in the realm of IGF-1 as I too believe it is important. The reason it may not be effective when injecting it is you lack the elevation of other key nutrients when ingested naturally. I consume over 200g of protein a day which would indicate a high level of IGF-1. The reason for the high intake is that I am an active bodybuilder, but protein has many other benefits. Tryptophan is critically low in all MS patients and high protein foods are the highest sources of tryptophan.

Leucine and Valine are also in high protein foods though and they are found to be excessively high in the CSF of MS patients. If Leucine and Valine are not metabolized correctly they "rot" and produce toxic keto-acids. Leucine and valine toxicity is very real and is the cause of Maple Syrup Urine Disease which is characterized by neurologic issues related to the lack of the ezymes to process leucine and valine. MSUD and MS have very interesting links and it may be that instead of lacking the enzymes from birth we lose them when an adult. This may help explain the efficacy of uric acid as it is can function as an anti-oxidant and remove the ketoacids and ammonia. What is odd is that these 3 amino acids (Tryptophan, Leucine and Valine) are found as a trio in foods... Why is it that we are low in Tryptophan but high in the other two? Seems to point to enzymes and our ability to metabolize them and maybe to the BBB and its selective permeability issues.

MS is a very unusual disease but if we focus on the commonalities in ALL MS cases we may be able to cut through to the root issue(s).
Kronk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:24 am

I personally think looking for one indicator common to all ms patients is a major roadblock to understanding this illness.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9225
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:37 am

ran across this as part of a different discussion:

Maternal Zinc Deficiency in Rats Affects Growth and Glucose Metabolism in the Offspring by Inducing Insulin Resistance Postnatally
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/140/9/1621.short
"blood glucose and serum insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1) concentrations at wk 3 were significantly higher in ZnD pups than in controls."
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9225
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby Kronk » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:08 pm

jimmylegs wrote:I personally think looking for one indicator common to all ms patients is a major roadblock to understanding this illness.


In a disease with great differences in symptoms, disability rates and quality of life how could it not be beneficial in looking at what is the same across the board?
If you want to isolate the root cause you have to determine what is the same in each patient. Even if it is varying levels of zinc or other diet related items finding a consistent theme in all patients is essential. But zinc isn't just low in MS patients much like diet isn't just poor in MS patients. There is more to it.
Kronk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:08 pm

nutritional imbalances and deficits are consistent in ms patients - this is demonstrated in research. the origins of the imbalance will vary from person to person however, with individual genetic, epigenetic, prenatal, early life, and adult environmental and lifestyle influences and choices. which is why a diet that works for one patient may not work for another. I don't believe that a root cause and a one size fits all solution is feasible given the complexity of factors that play into chronic diseases like ms.

at a minimum, working to address nutritional imbalances or deficits can clear any related symptoms out of the picture, so docs know what they're actually dealing with, having confidence that nutrition issues aren't in the mix.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9225
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Insulin--Could This Be the Key?

Postby standingtall » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:26 am

Have read this thread many times, and reviewing again today..........But I am just too fatigued to keep reading, so maybe someone can point me in the right direction. I am 5 yr. MS'er who has had a fairly easy road so far, until just recently. Worst attack ever two weeks ago and not back from the woodshed yet.
What I am searching for is the possibility of insulin or blood sugar causing my recent onset of numbness/poor circulation in my feet. In particular, I have checked the levels in the past and never found them to be a high. I kind of gave up on that being an issue for me. But the similar symptoms of diabetes and what I am experiencing now are remarkable. Without giving my life history, I was a poor caretaker of my body prior to MS. But since dx's have a healthy regiment of diet, excersice and minimize stress. I am gluten and dairy free also. Take lots of good supplements, but nothing exotic or out of the realm of vitamins and minerals.
standingtall
Family Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:44 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users