This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

Since this item mentioned insulin, I am posting this here.

I admit I watch entirely too much TV--today I watched the local NBC news at midday (as I do every day!). The health segment concerned infertility. I'm sorry I did not catch the details such as doctor's name or location, but I know you folks can research it if you're interested.

The report said scientists are noting a connection between weight and infertility, that women, who cannot conceive, do conceive after losing some weight. (They were not talking about obese women either!) One sentence that did stick with me was that women with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome have too much insulin to become pregnant.

Insulin may not be the root of all medical problems, but it is involved in more than just diabetes, I'm sure--even MS, I'll bet.

I recently had an Fasting insulin test. I have been in contact with lindacarol and there is some controversy over the test protocol. In australia, the blood does not need to be frozen. I had the blood drawn on a friday after noon, so it wasnt tested until monay or possibly even later. Now, lindacarol spoke with her dr's office, and they say their protocol requires the blood to be frozen. So, there is this possible bone of contention.

In australia, the results for "normal" are quoted between 0 and 20. My test came back with a result of <2. Below 2, the lab either cannot differentiate the result, or dont bother to do so. So, if this test was performed correctly, it would appear MY insulin leves were what would be expected for fasting. I did probably fast more than required as I had an early dinner the day before.

Hi LC,
Not sure if you are keeping a track of ppl's insulin levels but I just read COB's post and thought I should tell you about mine. I have had a fasting insulin done several times and it's always been normal.
NN

yep i think it'll be one of those things that is a factor for some and not for others.

one day, just saying "MS" will be like saying "cancer" now. what kind of cancer? and just the other day i was told about a televised panel of cancer experts were saying how different even breast cancer and its treatment can be, from one patient to the next, so even "breast cancer" is therefore an umbrella term for a number of conditions.

one day i'll have to see about my own fasting insulin. i've had a great time dealing with psoriasis, since i was about twelve, which is associated with increased risk of lymphoma and diabetes, and yep it's associated with MS and the rheumatoid arthritis suffered by my mom's mom and the various cancers suffered by my other three grandparents (kidney, breast, leukemia). yay.

also there are links between candida overgrowth (which has been my shadow pest since diaper days), insulin, and psoriasis. i figure the day my psoriasis and candida problem goes away will be the day i have finally figured out what the heck is going awry in there and i might even save myself from the big C. or any other of the big A-list.

This is a new drug that has some effects on Insulin Sensitivity. But it also appears to have a reverse effect where in it would increase insulin also. It is seen as a replacement or adjunct to daily shots by those with type II diabeties.

http://www.dia-btech.com.au/about_us/business_activities.html



I saw the story on a current affairs program, and they talked as if it was just about to be released.


PS: "ISF" stands for Insulin Sensitivity Factor

I have been puzzled by your insulin test protocol and results since you had it conducted, CureOrBust. I just can't explain any of it!

I contacted a nurse at my physician's office. She confirmed that the specimen must be frozen; but she urged me as well to contact the lab where testing is done.

I contacted the OSF St. Francis Hospital lab in Peoria, IL; I was told the same and even requested a copy of the page concerned with the test.



I will still pursue national standardization, perhaps CLIA or another government agency has some. Everyone I have talked with so far thinks freezing is important to avoid degradation of the sample. Can you medical professionals out there help me find a source for an answer to this question?

In the meantime, I still urge folks with extant MS symptoms to ask for this test. It costs about $50 if your insurance will not cover it (mine did). A desirable, "normal" outcome should be below 10 (Mine was 12.).

On March 28, 2007 Reuters reported "Type 2 diabetes may raise Parkinson's risk: study"

You'll have to find it on their website, http://today.reuters.com

"All rights reserved" etc.

Insulin keeps popping up all over. This concerns a study done by Dr. Gang Hu et al. at the National Public Health Institute in Helsinki (Hello, finn?).

You can substitute "Hyperinsulinemia" for "Type 2 diabetes." People are confused by the name similarity, but Type 1 and Type 2 are two completely different things: Type 1--the body produces NO insulin; Type 2--the insulin produced is ineffective, and is usually produced in excess.

Interesting study! Thanks for sharing it, lyndacarol.

Btw, here's its abstract.

-finn

_________________
"The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact.” -Thomas Henry Huxley

Lynda Carol--a couple of abstracts for you to ponder.

You wrote:
Here's a studyabout DHEA that suggests it has the potential to reduce fasting plasma insulin levels in some women.

Now I know you'd never consider taking DHEA without having your DHEA level checked first to determine if it is in fact low and if it is, what dose the physician might recommend to bring it into the normal range.

And, here's a study that highlights some neuroprotective properties of one of the "diabetes" drugs, pioglitazone, that is in trial for MS (I think). This study was in spinal cord injury.

Thiazolidinedione class of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma agonists prevents neuronal damage, motor dysfunction, myelin loss, neuropathic pain, and inflammation after spinal cord injury in adult rats

You just never know what will turn up.

Sharon

I need more time to think on the DHEA post. It is intriguing!

To the pioglitazone (commercial drug: Actos)--Yes, there is a study of it and MS being conducted by Dr. Douglas Feinstein of the University of Illinois at Chicago. He learned of one woman whose MS improved greatly while taking the drug.

On that basis, I asked to try Actos and did for a couple months. I saw no changes and stopped. Since that time I have read about another in that same family of Thiazolidinediones, Rezulin (active ingredient is Troglitazone).

This drug is metabolized in the liver and requires a healthy liver detoxification system. It is contra-indicated for pregnant or breast feeding women. It may render oral contraceptives ineffective.

This drug received fast-track approval by the FDA; it was tied to at least 33 deaths; it has now been recalled from the American marketplace because of its link to liver cancer. Rezulin has been removed from the British market.

If I had known this, I would not have tried Actos. Now, maybe Actos is safer--I don't know. One must always consider the risk vs. benefit.

I still think that insulin is the villain; I am still using diet to try to bring down my insulin level (There must be SOMETHING to Ivy Larson's experience with The Gold Coast Cure!), but no luck yet. At least it is safe and VERY healthy!

I admit that this thread has gotten unmanageably large and I no longer know what I have posted here. I have used it to work my way through my thoughts.

Perhaps I have already posted this information. If so, I apologize for repeating; if not, I encourage you to read (or even print the 20+ pages of) the transcript of Dr. Ron Rosedale's talk: http://bodye.com/insulin1.htm

"Insulin and Its Metabolic Effects"

presented at Designs for Health's BoulderFest in August 1999 Seminar.

It appears on more than 50 other sites on the Internet. Given my belief in hyperinsulinemia's involvement in MS, I think this could be very important in tying together diet, hormones, HPA axis, magnesium....LOTS of our suspicions.

In the past several months there have been questions about the precise conditions for the fasting serum insulin test. The most recent (and complete) information I have comes from the book, Protein Power by Michael Eades, M.D. and Mary Dan Eades, M.D. (page 53-54):



I find much valuable information even in this, my second reading of this book, and I recommend it to all you. I have begun to follow their regimen more faithfully in an attempt to lower my insulin levels. Wish me luck!!!

Both type 1 and 2 diabetes mellitus (T1DM and T2DM) have marked defect in glucose utilization.
For the brain it is a badly negative situation, because brain restoration/healing heavily depends on glucose, but glucose must be utilized, means, enter the cell, only then it will work.
Even insulin pump used for fast blood glucose correction in some T1DM patients couldn't control this defect of glucose utilization, not even speaking of T2DM correction with other kind of drugs which is even more inadequate.

Stay skinny, eat proper food, don't drink alcohol, and exercise in moderation - all that will reduce your chances for T2DM remarkably.
In a case if you have T1DM - try to control it as much as you can, it would be a tough life for you (with lot of restrictions and obligatory things to do), but it worse it.

Kind regards,
Tony

_________________
"All truth passes through three stages.
First it is ridiculed.
Second it is violently opposed.
Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Schopenhauer

TJ--Please explain to me how your statement:
"For the brain it is a badly negative situation, because brain restoration/healing heavily depends on glucose, but glucose must be utilized, means, enter the cell, only then it will work." fits with Dr. Rosedale's comment: "Your brain will burn sugar, though it doesn't have to, by burning by-products of fat metabolism called ketones. That is what it has to burn when you fast for any length of time. It has been shown that if your brain was really good at burning ketones from fat that you can get enough sugar from eating 100 percent fat.

You can make a little bit of sugar out of the glycerol molecule of fat. Take two glycerol molecules and you have a molecule of glucose. Two triglycerides will give you a molecule of glucose. The brain can actually exist without a whole lot of sugar, contrary to popular belief."

The statements seem completely opposite--brain depends on glucose; brain uses ketones or the glycerol molecule of fat (Especially his last sentence.).

Please understand that I am not a scientist.

It is nothing wrong with not being a scientist , don’t even worry about that.

Please don’t take Dr. Rosedale seriously; he is from ‘snake oil’ guys.
If MD could say the statement like this: “Blood vessels constrict, glucose and insulin can't get to the tissues…” - stay away.
Let me explain the situation with glucose and the brain in this way.
Brain cells are highly specialized cells. Because of their narrow high specialization they lack (relatively) some components or chemical machinery to do things which are possible for more simple cells.
Extreme vulnerability of brain cells, esp. neurons, is a part of the deal; the price of being so high specialized. There is no way for brain cell to use ketones or modify fat for energetic purpose. Ketones are highly toxic and cause the brain tissue damage, irreversible by the way.
Among brain cells, only astrocytes have some reasonable storage of energy (glycogen) as some kind of energetic ‘back-up’ (for 15 min. max), but it mostly used for catastrophic events, but for second-to-second brain maintenance. Other cells used glucose only from constantly running supply, and if the supply interrupts, then start of their structural changes begins within couple of minutes (!). Turnover of glucose is so fast that there is no even time for converting fat (on site, if it would be even possible) to usable glucose.
Brain loves glucose, it tolerates it well up to 1000 (!), in vitro of course, the point is: more (usable) glucose – faster recovering brain.

Kind regards,
Tony

_________________
"All truth passes through three stages.
First it is ridiculed.
Second it is violently opposed.
Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Schopenhauer