MRI updates

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MRI updates

Postby Scat89 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:18 pm

So my c-spine came back normal except for 2 bulging discs...no lesions. My neuro says I definitely don't have MS, but I'm not totally convinced. He wants me to do physical therapy for my neck, and come back in a month. On one hand I'm happy that they haven't found anything, and on the other I still have MS type symptoms and I have no clue what's going on or what to think. So far, my brain MRI is normal, C-spine MRI is normal (except for bulging discs), and my EMG is normal. What would you all recommend? Should I request a T-spine as well? 2nd opinion?

thanks!
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Re: MRI updates

Postby civickiller » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:04 pm

what explains this is Upper Cervical Care. visit the chiropractic treatment forums or google upper cervical care
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Re: MRI updates

Postby Scat89 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:05 am

[quote="civickiller"]what explains this is Upper Cervical Care. visit the chiropractic treatment forums or google upper cervical care[/quote

How will they be able to give me answers? I mean no disrespect, but I'm not sure how they can help me? Can you offer some insight please. Thanks!
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Re: MRI updates

Postby DougL » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:23 am

Scat89 wrote:How will they be able to give me answers? I mean no disrespect, but I'm not sure how they can help me? Can you offer some insight please. Thanks!


many symptoms of MS can be explained by other problems. one of those is Upper Cervical issues.

google NUCCA

here is just one short quote

Your postural muscles are constantly working to maintain an upright posture. Postural distortion results in uneven weight distribution over all of your joint surfaces. The muscles throughout your neck, back, arms and legs will compensate for this shift in weight. Pain will show up in the area of greatest breakdown. The reduction of postural distortion provided by the NUCCA procedure decreases the stress on all areas of the body and allows for the possible relief of pain and proper healing.

I am not suggesting you to do this, just explaining what UCC could do. I am new to NUCCA myself and just reading and asking questions before we go see a doc for a free consultation.
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Re: MRI updates

Postby civickiller » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:58 pm

no pain? like back or neck pain
any neck or head trauma? like whiplash, falls, etc

DougL did pretty good job explaining it.

as your spine is probably curved, as your spine tries to corrects itself its causing bulged disc

im only advising to get checked out by a ucc dr, if he finds nothing no harm no foul.
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Re: MRI updates

Postby MarkLavelle » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:43 pm

Scat89 wrote:So my c-spine came back normal except for 2 bulging discs...no lesions. My neuro says I definitely don't have MS, but I'm not totally convinced. He wants me to do physical therapy for my neck, and come back in a month. On one hand I'm happy that they haven't found anything, and on the other I still have MS type symptoms and I have no clue what's going on or what to think. So far, my brain MRI is normal, C-spine MRI is normal (except for bulging discs), and my EMG is normal. What would you all recommend? Should I request a T-spine as well? 2nd opinion?
Not enough info!

1. Have you been to a spine/back doctor of any kind?
2. What are your symptoms (and frequency or triggers)?

A T-spine would mostly be of interest if you have neuro sx below the waist.

RRMS dx 3/3/11; Copaxone since 12/1/11
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Re: MRI updates

Postby Scat89 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:25 pm

MarkLavelle wrote:
Scat89 wrote:So my c-spine came back normal except for 2 bulging discs...no lesions. My neuro says I definitely don't have MS, but I'm not totally convinced. He wants me to do physical therapy for my neck, and come back in a month. On one hand I'm happy that they haven't found anything, and on the other I still have MS type symptoms and I have no clue what's going on or what to think. So far, my brain MRI is normal, C-spine MRI is normal (except for bulging discs), and my EMG is normal. What would you all recommend? Should I request a T-spine as well? 2nd opinion?
Not enough info!

1. Have you been to a spine/back doctor of any kind?
2. What are your symptoms (and frequency or triggers)?

A T-spine would mostly be of interest if you have neuro sx below the waist.


Hi Mark,

1. I haven't seen a spine/back Dr of any kind. Although, I've suffered from upper back pain for atleast 4-5 years now. I figured I had a pinched nerve or something. I was suffering from much more upper back pain than usual this summer.
2. Here's a list of my symptoms in order of appearance, tickle in my throat, tightness in throat, hoarse voice, testicle pain, lower back pain, left eye felt strange then glared vision, facial nerve pain, brain fog, general feeling of malaise and fatigue, heaviness/muscle weakness in arms, legs, left hand and left foot, nerve pain thru shoulders, arms, legs and feet. The tickle in my throat started the end of July, and my full blown symptoms started end of October.

all of my symptoms come and go during the day, but even when they go I don't quite feel 100%. I'm definitely more sensitive to heat and sometimes cold.

I agree with the T-spine, but apparently my neuro doesn't seem to think it's necessary at this point because of my normal testing so far. I get the feeling that most of these Dr's are too smart for their own good. All they know is what they read in books...they don't have any real experience with any of this except for what their patients tell them...sorry for the brief rant!

thanks!
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Re: MRI updates

Postby civickiller » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:05 pm

my neuro didnt listen to me when i told him i fell from a tree on my back, he didnt listen when i told him ucc took away my heat sensitivity, fatigue, migraines, and lower back pain
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Re: MRI updates

Postby Scat89 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:14 am

thanks Civic. I'll certainly look into it. It seems to be difficult to find a Doc that will actually listen.

Any suggestions based on my symptoms Mark? I forgot to add muscle spasms in arms, legs, abdomen, and my fine motors skills in my left hand seemed to have diminished. My heart seems to be beating harder as well.
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Re: MRI updates

Postby MarkLavelle » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:38 pm

Scat89 wrote:Any suggestions based on my symptoms Mark? I forgot to add muscle spasms in arms, legs, abdomen, and my fine motors skills in my left hand seemed to have diminished. My heart seems to be beating harder as well.
With the possible exception of the muscle spasms, everything below your neck that you described could be due to your two bad discs. I would try to get to a physiatrist, and bring that c-spine MRI with you. In fact, I'd try to see a physiatrist before starting any physical therapy (their thing is all about how the nerves & moving parts work together).

FYI, this is a pretty good summary of what physiatrists do/are: http://www.aapmr.org/patients/aboutpmr/ ... trist.aspx

It seems to me that all your other symptoms could have multiple causes (some possibly even from those bad discs), but probably not in your t-spine. If your neuro isn't still investigating them and isn't referring you to anyone other than a PT I'd ask them why (and start thinking about finding an MS specialist to consult).

Good luck,
Mark [ NOT A DOCTOR! ]

RRMS dx 3/3/11; Copaxone since 12/1/11
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Re: MRI updates

Postby Scat89 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:40 am

MarkLavelle wrote:
Scat89 wrote:Any suggestions based on my symptoms Mark? I forgot to add muscle spasms in arms, legs, abdomen, and my fine motors skills in my left hand seemed to have diminished. My heart seems to be beating harder as well.
With the possible exception of the muscle spasms, everything below your neck that you described could be due to your two bad discs. I would try to get to a physiatrist, and bring that c-spine MRI with you. In fact, I'd try to see a physiatrist before starting any physical therapy (their thing is all about how the nerves & moving parts work together).

FYI, this is a pretty good summary of what physiatrists do/are: http://www.aapmr.org/patients/aboutpmr/ ... trist.aspx

It seems to me that all your other symptoms could have multiple causes (some possibly even from those bad discs), but probably not in your t-spine. If your neuro isn't still investigating them and isn't referring you to anyone other than a PT I'd ask them why (and start thinking about finding an MS specialist to consult).

Good luck,
Mark [ NOT A DOCTOR! ]


Thanks Mark! I'm going to find an MS specialist to talk with. Maybe they will be able to tell me more.

I went to the ophthalmologist yesterday, he said my eyes are normal. He mentioned MS and that should get the T-spine MRI and spinal tap. I beginning to think my neuro is a complete idiot.
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Re: MRI updates

Postby MarkLavelle » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:23 am

Scat89 wrote:I beginning to think my neuro is a complete idiot.
I'd be a little more generous -- maybe everything he knows about MS he learned from a book...

RRMS dx 3/3/11; Copaxone since 12/1/11
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Re: MRI updates

Postby euphoniaa » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:39 pm

MarkLavelle wrote:With the possible exception of the muscle spasms, everything below your neck that you described could be due to your two bad discs. I would try to get to a physiatrist, and bring that c-spine MRI with you. In fact, I'd try to see a physiatrist before starting any physical therapy (their thing is all about how the nerves & moving parts work together).

FYI, this is a pretty good summary of what physiatrists do/are: http://www.aapmr.org/patients/aboutpmr/ ... trist.aspx

It seems to me that all your other symptoms could have multiple causes (some possibly even from those bad discs), but probably not in your t-spine. If your neuro isn't still investigating them and isn't referring you to anyone other than a PT I'd ask them why (and start thinking about finding an MS specialist to consult).

Good luck,
Mark [ NOT A DOCTOR! ]


Well, scat, it's me again. :smile: I have to agree with what Mark said about trying a physiatrist next. I recommend them regularly when posters are hard to diagnose, especially with no sign of lesions. I think they go at it with a more generalized focus, which leads them into a more open-minded, holistic investigation of the clues your body gives them.

My expanded physiatrist story (big ya-a-a-awn from those who've heard it before...) is that my dad collapsed in pain unable to walk many years ago. After examination, the local physiatrist was observant enough to send him 2 hours away for genetic testing, which showed he was positive for HNPP, a rare hereditary peripheral neuropathy. To this day, not a single one of my many docs (besides neuros) has even heard of HNPP.

Then 8 years ago my GP sent me to the same physiatrist to check whether the teensy tremor in one finger might be carpal tunnel. He did EMGs (BTW, EMGs are to check for peripheral nerve damage, not for MS), & diagnosed me quickly with carpal tunnel blockage, meaning probable HNPP like my dad.

He could have stopped there, but even though I answered "no" to his dozens of symptom questions, he STILL sent me for a brain MRI. The report from that visit shows most all my neuro signs normal - except he wondered about CNS problems due to "asymmetrical reflex in the legs, and the upgoing toe on the left." I was so healthy at the time that I didn't even ask him why he wanted to see inside my brain. Honest! I went alone and didn't even tell my family I was getting a brain MRI.

The MRI showed my brain jammed full of MS-type lesions and my C-Spine and upper T-spine are full of disk bulging and stenosis. Subsequent tests were also positive for MS: O-bands and elevated IgG in the spinal fluid, VEP positive for MS, and the carpal tunnel extends to both wrists and both elbows, confirming HNPP.

So....it's people like me (all tests positive) who make it so hard for people like you (all tests negative) to get a quick diagnosis of anything. :-D I think you should take a deep breath...and look for someone new to check you out - like a physiatrist.

And one more note about neuros. My experience would suggest not to go straight to an MS neuro, because you're not showing many charactistically obvious MS signs. Neuros hate it when they think you've given yourself an internet MS diagnosis and are barreling straight down that path.

My first neuro (after the dx) was thoroughly abominable about it, and I had even come to him with an official MS dx (or so I thought). He was furious at my claim. I always laugh that they must want to make the 'virgin diagnosis', possibly adding a new notch for every dx to that damn hammer he pounded me with until my arm (yes, my arm) was covered with bruises. (My next neuro fired me...another story.)

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. :smile:
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS or MS symptoms except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Re: MRI updates

Postby Scat89 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:18 pm

Hi Euphonia,

It's good to hear form you. Alright, a physiatrist it is...there seems to be quite a few in my area according to Mark's link. Just curious if anyone knows of a reputable one in the NW burbs of Chicago? Some of them are titled MD and some DO...Does it make any difference?

Thanks guys
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