How many lesions do you have

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How many lesions do you have

Postby js22lee » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:57 am

How many brain lesions do you have or did you have at the time of diagnosis?
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Re: How many lesions do you have

Postby euphoniaa » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:43 pm

js22lee wrote:How many brain lesions do you have or did you have at the time of diagnosis?

Hi js22lee, and welcome!

I'm sorry you're having any issues at all, and I haven't had time to welcome the many new posters here this week. But I thought I'd quickly post a link to my thread with my MRIs on it. Lesion count doesn't mean much (as I say in my other lesion thread - a loooong one :smile: ), and with MS there are specific lesion types & locations that they look for.

It sounds like your (very few) lesions are not particularly indicative of MS ones, so it may take some other tests and observations to find out exactly what's going on with you. Most neurological issues have similar symptoms, and no symptom is exclusive to MS. Plus, there are many other reasons for brain lesions.

In my case, on my first MRI they found my brain was jammed with too many MS-type lesions to count, plus I pass all the other MS tests, but I had very, very, minor symptoms at the time (8 yrs ago). I'm still doing okay after probably 38 years of lesion sprouting. I even work full-time.

Here's the link to my diagnosis story and MRIs:

general-discussion-f1/topic16335.html?hilit=tumefactive

Good luck to you, make yourself at home, and ask as many questions as you want. It's too bad that there are never, ever any simple, obvious, definite answers to a single aspect of MS, but that's okay, we'll give you plenty of answers anyway. And each of us will have a different one for you! :smile:
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Re: How many lesions do you have

Postby js22lee » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:31 pm

Thank you so much for your response! I haven't yet checked out the links you gave me but I will tonight. Your statement that my lesions don't sound indicative of MS is refreshing while confusing at the same time. from my readings up till now I understood that more than 2 lesions found to increase in number over a 2 month or more period along with clinical diagnoses of symptoms characteristic of MS was criteria enough, even in the absence of other results, to diagnose MS. I am assuming the links you provided will give me more insight so I will read up on those b4 bombarding you with more questions. Either way..... MS or something else, I'm uncomfortable to learn that this degeneration is continuing over time and just want an answer so I can learn what I can do to be proactive in lessening their effects. While I battle many neurological symptoms almost daily, I too very active.. I run, I take martial arts, I work full time and am an involved and busy mom of 2 young boys. its a battle to maintain this lifestyle through the fatigue, chronic pain, weakness and numb spells but I push myself to not give up the life I used to know bc of these horrible things that have come into my life.

right now, I just want a call from my doctor. I know he's a rediculously busy doctor, but this limbo of not knowing if he will dismiss the results as no biggie.... order more tests... or tell me what I've feared for some time (MS) is torture!

thanks again for welcoming me and showing support by sharing your info. it's nice to know there's somewhere to turn.
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Re: How many lesions do you have

Postby euphoniaa » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:00 pm

js22lee wrote:Thank you so much for your response! I haven't yet checked out the links you gave me but I will tonight. Your statement that my lesions don't sound indicative of MS is refreshing while confusing at the same time. from my readings up till now I understood that more than 2 lesions found to increase in number over a 2 month or more period along with clinical diagnoses of symptoms characteristic of MS was criteria enough, even in the absence of other results, to diagnose MS.

right now, I just want a call from my doctor. I know he's a rediculously busy doctor, but this limbo of not knowing if he will dismiss the results as no biggie.... order more tests... or tell me what I've feared for some time (MS) is torture!


Well, js22lee, to clarify my confusing post, :smile: the only link I gave you is to my personal thread here where I posted my MRI pics - and diagnosis story. Sorry that probably won't help you learn much. :smile: My point is that there are different types of brain lesions, and different causes for lesions, so just counting them often isn't enough.

Plus, we're all completely unique. There is lots of info here and threads about everything, so go ahead and read. Your doctor is the only one who can really guide you through your reports and exams, but your MRI report mentions many other options for the few lesions you have, while mine just flat out said they looked like MS lesions. MS lesions are periventricular (around the ventricles), etc., and I have plenty of those. And I have "Dawson's Fingers." My lesions are 'classic' MS lesions.

On the other hand, your MRI report said yours were "nonspecific," while giving many other options – like migraines.
Your MRI report:

"Small foci of high T2 signals are nonspecific findings and may result from any process that causes ischemia, demylenation, or gliosis. This appearance is most commonly seen in older patients secondary to atherosclerosis. Does the paient have risk factors for accelerated atherosclerosis such as hypertension, diabetes or hypercholestrolemia? In youger patients demylenation, most commonly secondary to multiole sclerosis should be considered. Lyme disease collagen vascular diseases such as lupus and other vasculitides, migraine headaches, and the use of certain drugs may also result in the appearance"


So take a deep breath, keep posting and asking questions, and I always suggest that you can't go wrong by optimizing your general health with a healthy diet & exercise no matter whether it's MS or not.

Good luck and keep us posted!
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Re: How many lesions do you have

Postby patticake66 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:49 am

Euphoniaa,
I believe there aren't many things that cause brain lesions. I asked my neuro upon my initial diagnosis if lesions can be caused by other things and he told me no....if you google causes of brain lesions, not much is listed....so I don't understand why you would say there are many things that cause brain lesions....that is not true.
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Re: How many lesions do you have

Postby euphoniaa » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:07 am

patticake66 wrote:Euphoniaa,
I believe there aren't many things that cause brain lesions. I asked my neuro upon my initial diagnosis if lesions can be caused by other things and he told me no....if you google causes of brain lesions, not much is listed....so I don't understand why you would say there are many things that cause brain lesions....that is not true.


Well, patticake, I do stand by my statement, and there are many other posts here at TIMS with info about the many causes of brain lesions. Even though I had a dx of MS from the classic lesions on my MRIs (from a physiatrist and a radiologist) both of my first 2 neuros looked at my MRIs and told me that "anything can cause brain lesions" (maybe a bit of an overstatement, too :smile: ) and insisted that a spinal tap was the only way to verify my dx. They were wrong - spinal tap isn't a definitive test for MS any more than spotting generic brain lesions. Doctors are not perfect.

I hope someone replies with a list, but even js22's radiologist report lists many reasons for brain lesions, including:

ischemia
lupus
Lyme disease
drugs
migraines
gliosis
artherosclerosis

And here's one of my favorite sites – "The Whole Brain Atlas" where it shows a whole page of links to brain damaging diseases and the different ways they appear on MRI.

http://www.med.harvard.edu/AANLIB/home.html
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Re: How many lesions do you have

Postby LR1234 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:10 am

I agree about the brain lesions can be caused by many things....some off the top of my head to add to Euphonia list:
Small vessel/vascular disease
Viruses
Migraines
Thyroid encephalitis (sp??)
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Re: How many lesions do you have

Postby Wonderfulworld » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:09 pm

Coeliac disease - if the person is eating gluten - can cause brain-lesions and neuropathy too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Concussus Resurgo
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RR-MS dx 1998 and Coeliac dx 2003
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Copaxone, Cymbalta. EPO, Fish Oils, Vitamin D3 2000 IU daily, Cal/Mag/Zinc, Multivitamin/mineral, Co-Enzyme Q10, Probiotics, Milk Thistle.
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Re: How many lesions do you have

Postby patticake66 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:13 am

So if brain lesions can be caused by several different things, then why are they counted as MS lesions....for example, when I was in the process of being diagnosed, my mri showed 1 active lesion on my spine (which was causing my symptoms) and 2 "older" lesions on my brain. Why would the brain lesions be considered part of the MS destruction of the myelin? What you are saying is that the brain lesions could have been there for years caused by something totally different than what my spine lesions was caused by. Why be given a diagnosis of MS?
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