This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

I previously posted a study on low B12 and resulting high homocysteine in MS patients entitled,"Serum Vitamin B12, Folate, and Homocysteine Levels and their Association with Clinical and Electrophysiological Parameters in Multiple Sclerosis".

In the study entitled, "Increased Plasma Homocysteine Levels in Patients with Multiple Sclerosis and Depression", it states, "Plasma homocysteine was "significantly increased" in MS patients compared to controls.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2553073/

Homocysteine plays a role in the cell death (apoptosis) of oligodendrocytes. Oligodendrocytes are cells that coat axons in the central nervous system with their cell membrane, called myelin, producing the so-called myelin sheath. The study entitled, “Homocysteine and folate deficiency sensitize oligodendrocytes to the cell death-promoting effects of a presenillin-1 mutation and amyloid beta-peptide” states, “These findings demonstrate an adverse effect of homocysteine on oligodendrocytes and suggest roles for homocysteine and folate deficiency in the white matter damage in Alzheimer’s disease and related neurodegenerative disorders.” Without vitamin B12, folate becomes trapped in the body in a metabolically useless form.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12728194

I just started reading this and today I am in a bit of brain fog. Lol so in terms that I may understand on this foggy brain day, what exactly is this saying about vit B12? I'm really interested in this! I have MS, I was diagnosed last yr in May. Trying to find out and learn everything I can about it. It seems so complicated. Thanks!!

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diggie!!

Hi diggie~I have posted studies that show MS patients are unable to properly bind and transport vitamin B12. Here is a quote from one of the studies I posted, "pancreatic enzymes and the ionic environment in the upper gastrointestinal tract are essential determining factors for transport and absorption of cobalamin (B12) in man." Even if you take B12 in supplement form, you will not be able to properly bind and transport it.

The lack of B12 will lead to many of the symptoms and findings associated with MS. Such as, spinal cord degeneration, autonomic nervous system dysfunction, high homocysteine, optic neuritis, white matter lesions, dysregulated glucose metabolism, a disruption in the heme biosynthetic pathway and the cytochrome P450 enzyme system etc.

Not all of the symptoms and findings in MS can be explained by a lack of B12 though. Findings such as low uric acid and vitamin D, dysregulated iron, lack of CoQ10 and glutathione (major antioxidant), lack of endorphins, the connection to RA, hypothyroidism and celiac disease,restless legs syndrome etc. The lack of protease and DNase 1 has so far explained the lack of B12 and all of these other symptoms and findings.

Ok I'm understanding it better now! Thank you so much Anneese!! Pretty amazing!

Also, I am wondering if B12 injection would be a better idea than the supplements? Would that make any kind of difference?

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diggie!!

If B12 is unable to be transported into the cells, then the serum level will not really matter.

One of the biggest concerns is that taking supplements of the nutrients that MS patients have been found low in may actually lead to even greater harm. For instance, iron is dysregulated in MS. I posted a study that shows protease are responsible for iron regulation in the body. The dysregulated iron has become a part of the pathogenic process of MS. Here is a study on on this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18408021
So, taking additional iron would likely lead to more harm.

Calcium is also not being regulated properly because of a lack of protease. The blood borne calcium is supposed to be protein-bound. The inability to carry protein-bound calcium leads to the calcium being deposited in joints and tissues. Taking additional calcium would just give your body more to deposit in your joints and tissues.

The loss of the ability to metabolize calcium would then lead to an inability to metabolize vitamin D, since it is dependent on blood-borne calcium to be properly metabolized. Excess vitamin D can damage the heart and kidneys. How much is excessive though if you are unable to properly metabolize it? Here is some information on vitamin D from my book.

"A form of vitamin D called cholecalciferol, also called vitamin D3 or calciol, is added to many foods as a supplement. It is also prescribed as a medication for people who are unable to maintain adequate levels of vitamin D. You might be surprised to learn though, that it is also commonly used as an ingredient in rodent poison. Here is an excerpt from the Merck Veterinary Manual on cholecalciferol:

“Cholecalciferol: Although this rodenticide was introduced with claims that it was less toxic to nontarget species than to rodents, clinical experience has shown that rodenticides containing cholecalciferol are a significant health threat to dogs and cats. Cholecalciferol produces hypercalcemia, which results in systemic calcification of soft tissue, leading to renal failure, cardiac abnormalities, hypertension, CNS depression, and GI upset,” (Merck & Co., 2011).

The target organs for cholecalciferol toxicity in animals are the heart and kidneys. The heart and kidneys are also the target organs for cholecalciferol toxicity in humans. A report from the Institute of Medicine in 2010 states that, “Getting too much calcium from dietary supplements has been associated with kidney stones, while excessive vitamin D can damage the heart and kidneys. Some signals suggest there are greater risks of death and chronic disease associated with long-term high vitamin D intake,” (Institute Of Medicine, 2010).

Taking supplements of vitamin B12, which you cannot properly metabolize, may also lead to harm. A large study done in Norway found a very large increased risk of cancer from folic acid and B12 supplements.
http://coloncancer.about.com/b/2009/11/ ... r-risk.htm

It is really something to think about. Water is a vital necessary nutrient, but if your kitchen facet was broken and you couldn't turn the water off or on when you wanted to or direct the water where you wanted it to go, then it could do a great deal of damage.

This is crazzzzzyyyyyyy!!! WTH is really all I can say about all this. Very interesting. How long have you been studying all this? What made you so interested in the MS part of it all? What is your book called? thank you for all the info even though it scares me now.

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diggie!!

Hi diggie~I have been searching for answers since I first became sick-about 20 years ago. Of course, if you're not looking in the right place, you don't get very far. I was convinced at first, that herbs would heal me. I just needed to find the right one. Herbs are amazing and will mitigate much of the damage being caused, but they aren't going to replace the specific enzymes found lacking in these diseases. I did learn alot about herbs though and that has been very useful. In fact, our book, which is called Autoimmune The Cause and The Cure, was just nominated for International Herb Book of The Year. I sincerely do not think it will win. It is not really an herb book, but we are thrilled it was even nominated. My daughter and I co-wrote the book. I would hold off if you are thinking about getting a copy. Our second edition should be out by next weekend. As I said earlier, this is a pathway and eventually, all of the symptoms, findings, and even associated conditions and diseases of every autoimmune disease will tie back in to this pathway. One of the associated conditions that we were able to recently connect to this pathway is endometriosis. Autoimmune sufferers have a greatly increased risk of developing endometriosis.

According to a study conducted by researchers at the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, women with endometriosis were over a hundred times more likely to have CFS. Hypothyroidism was seven times more common and fibromyalgia was twice as likely in the women with endometriosis. The researchers also found an increased risk for lupus, Sjogren's, rheumatoid arthritis, and MS. We were able to connect the reason for this in the 2nd edition in the most direct way back to the pathway. That led to a truly remarkable discovery.

Patients with endometriosis and autoimmune sufferers are at an increased risk for certain types of cancer, such as breast and lung cancer, and Hodgkin's lymphoma.Here is some information from WebMD on the connection to MS and Hodgkin's Lymphoma. Here is what it states, "A new study shows that MS and Hodgkin's lymphoma tend to run in families and provides new evidence to support the notion that the two diseases may have a COMMON ORGIN. http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis ... n-families

Once we knew what was causing the increased risk of endometriosis ( which involves angiogenesis or new blood vessel growth) we were able find the direct connection to lymphoma and breast cancer. I am not quite ready to put this information up on the Internet. I would like the book to come out first. Out of every connection we have been able to make though, this was truly the most remarkable.

wow, thank u for sharing Annesse! Super interested in the book. let me know when the new copy comes out!!

Hugs!

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diggie!!

Agree Diggie, this thread is truly fascinating (thanks Annesse, I also would like a copy of your book). I love to grow herbs and use them in cooking, but would love to dig further (literally ). I always feel better when I'm throwing lots of fresh homegrown herbs into my cooking.

Sometimes less is more. I have sort of intimated that in other threads. I quite often feel best when I don't take anything extra. Because I'm free of prescribed drugs and rarely take supplements I really do notice when I do take things that don't agree. Zinc is one that affected me negatively when I tried it. Having a mild iron overload was just so toxic and tipped me over the egde, then I realised sometimes we need to cut back rather than keep shoving more substances into our bodies. Believe me, when you have too much iron you feel like you are being poisoned.

I'm also very interested in genetics and the influence that has. This is because my sister has MS and I'm CIS, and we both have the hemochromatosis gene. The male female angle is also interesting. My brother also carries the HH gene and his trouble is with his liver (quite normal for males who overload iron, but no MS for him this far).
The girls seem to cop it in the brain and the boys in the liver?

Thank u Diggie and Bethr~Here is some information on why zinc may have made you feel unwell. Zinc, iron and copper are heavy metal ions. If they are not properly "chaperoned" and in an enzyme's active site they can be toxic to our cells. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 301097.php We will also be discussing why women are more prone to these diseases in an upcoming thread.

In the previous study I posted entitled,"Homocysteine and folate deficiency sensitize oligodendrocytes to the cell death promoting effects of a presenilin-1 mutation and amyloid beta-peptide," it was found that homocysteine "sensitized oligodendrocytes to the cytotoxicity of amyloid beta-peptide."

The formation of plaques containing amyloid beta peptides plays a major role in the development of Alzheimer's disease. This study shows that amyloid beta may also be involved in MS as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3055691/

As this next study shows, "The concentration of amyloid beta peptides in the brain is determined by a combination of their rate of synthesis and their rate of clearance." So what is responsible for clearing amyloid beta from the brain? The study states, "It now appears that cleavage of amyloid beta peptides by peptidases and PROTEASES represents the major mechanism of clearance."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12570808

Hi Annesse,

Have you had a look at oleuropein?

I'm finding it very useful adjunct and quite interesting to study to boot.

Regards

Hi Scott1-I have used olive leaf, but it was some time ago. I am a very big believer in keeping foods in their whole form. Herbs are just medicinal foods. For instance, nature put over 101 compounds in garlic. There are more, but man has only discovered 101. All of the different compounds work together to make garlic a powerful antibacterial and antiviral. If you go to the health food store and ask for garlic, they will most likely sell you an extract of garlic called allicin. This is just one compound out of hundreds. It is not the same. Here is some information for everyone on oleuropein and where it comes from.

http://www.naturalremedies.org/oleuropein/
I think organic fresh virgin olive oil and organic raw fermented olives are filled with healing properties. Specifically useful for the conditions we have been discussing.

I use whole garlic as part of a formula to treat even antibiotic resistant infections, such as MRSA. If I were to use an extract, I don't think it would work. Here is a newspaper article on the use of the formula (Ryan's Remedy). This simple herbal formula has never failed. It was sent to the University of Arizona and one of the world's leading MRSA researchers tested it in a petri dish with MRSA and MSSA and it had a "kill zone" that went clear up the side of the dish. Plus, there was no damage to surrounding tissue. I was also called by Mayo Clinic and asked if I would allow them to study the formula, but I had already agreed to give it to the University.

http://rapidcityjournal.com/lifestyles/ ... 002e0.html

If you scroll down, there are some more pictures and articles.
http://rapidcityjournal.com/search/?l=5 ... tml&q=MRSA

I am telling everyone this to help you understand the power of whole foods. They can do things no drug ever could and with no side effects. In fact, they have "side benefits".

What about the genetically modified foods?

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Marcia

Hi Annesse,

I stumbled on oleuropein whilst I was looking for something to activate the nuclear receptor PPAR. I use carrot juice to get retinoids to activate another called RXR. What I found interesting is both have anti-ebv properties.
I hear everything you and others have said about B12 but I still had a lot of MS problems when my B12 had been elevated sky high so I tend to see deficiencies as markers not causes. (ie low uric acid, low vit D, low B12, low non essential amino acids, low platlet levels etc). I'm also wary of relying on one reading. In other posts I have explained my view on the role of EBV and the path to peroxynitrite disabling enzymes.
I'd be very interested in 1)your views on effective EBV treatments 2) any views you have on peroxynitrite and 3) any thoughts you may have about activation of nuclear receptors by foods.

Like you, I like whole foods but I'm pretty convinced I need to keep belting the EBV as that has been a very effective approach for me.

I love the chook in the photo. Is there a sensible limit on egg intake? I've been having 3 hard boiled each morning for a month, lost weight and feel great.
Regards

Hi Marcia~I don't eat GMO foods. I think it is best to avoid them.
Hi Scott1~The roosters name is Darth. We and the hens love him. I think you are in the healthy range with your egg intake. Just make sure they are truly pastured. If a chicken does not have access to soil, its eggs will not contain B12. In the U.S. the label "free range" just means they are not in cages. They would have access to the out of doors, but by law that means a 5 by 5 foot concrete paddock for as many as 60,000 chickens. An egg producer told me the chickens don't go outside to the paddock because they don't put food out there.

I believe that the B12 deficiency we see in all of these diseases is a symptom of the lack of protease. So yes, it is a marker, but if you lack something, it will lead to something. The lack of B12 in MS has led directly to subacute combined degeneration of the spinal cord for instance. The National Institutes of Health defines subacute combined degeneration of the spinal cord as being caused by a B12 deficiency. If you are unable to bind or transport B12, then a high serum level is not indicative of your cellular level. Here is a study that shows subacute combined degeneration of the spinal cord even with a normal serum B12 level. http://archneur.ama-assn.org/cgi/conten ... t/50/7/739

The study states in the conclusion," sometimes a serum vitamin B12 level may not be a reliable guide to vitamin B12 deficiency."

We have shown that the lack of B12 is also directly related to many of the other symptoms and findings in MS. These would include: autonomic nervous system dysfunction (one of the neurotransmitters is synthesized from B12), a disruption in the heme biosynthetic pathway and the cytochrome P450 enzyme system (which explains low DHEA etc.), optic neuritis and nystagmus, white matter lesions, high homocysteine and glucose dysregulation. The lack of B12 will also explain your question on peroxynitrite.

Autoimmune sufferers have been shown to have an overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria, yeasts, viruses, etc. Just as with B12 though this can be directly attributed to a lack of HCL and protease. They are the bodies first line of defense against such pathogens. For instance, a UCLA study found that 95% of fibromyalgia and CFS patients had SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth). As we discussed earlier the XMRV virus has long been implicated in CFS, but the recent spinal fluid studies found no evidence of a virus or bacteria. H pylori is also another bacteria that has been found to be elevated in autoimmune sufferers. Here is a study on this. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20170006

Many autoimmune sufferers believe there is a link between the onset of their illness and a virus or bacteria. Here is a lupus patient asking this very question. http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Lupus/H-PY ... how/569032
But, H pylori, XMRV, EBV etc. does not explain spinal cord degeneration, low DHEA or elevated homocysteine. A B12 deficiency does though. And lack of protease explains low B12 and the overgrowth of pathogenic viruses and bacteria.

I will make the next post on peroxynitrite and some herbs that may be useful for EBV, so this post doesn't get too long.