Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby cervocuit » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:00 pm

erimus wrote:this treatment is now available in the UK at the Taymount clinic
http://www.taymount.com/
It is said "New website coming shortly" for bacteriotherapy and i don't think they propose it for MS.

Scientific breaktrough plagued by uncoolness
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2013/03/3-s ... lness.html
Biome reconstitution and fecal transplant

I have written several times about fecal transplant, most recently after the publication in the New England Journal of Medicine of an article out of the Netherlands showing a clear superiority of instilling healthy donor stool in the intestines of patients over use of antibiotics for Clostridium Difficile colitis. Various ailments of the colon, and possibly even obesity may be caused by alterations in the flora of the lower intestines and may be effectively treated by adding an appropriate bacteriological community. The use of healthy poop to cure disease of the colon is probably ancient, and has been in our medical literature since the 1950′s. Research has shown it to be staggeringly effective, working within days and resulting in long lasting effectiveness with only one treatment.

In the first decade of this millennium good research out of Duke University suggested that losing helminths (worms) from our guts due to improved sanitation has been responsible for various diseases of autoimmunity, including allergies, inflammatory bowel disease and maybe multiple sclerosis. There is even a possible connection with autism. There is some good research showing improvements in Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis by reintroducing helminths.

I would suggest that giving people worms and introducing poop soup into the intestines by way of a tube is icky and uncool, which may be why we are so very hesitant to take up this kind of therapy even though it appears to be cheap, elegant and effective. Fecal bacteria and intestinal worms are unlikely to be heavily marketed by drug companies, upon whom we have often depended for the impetus to make major therapeutic changes. These are not things which will make anybody much money, which means that researchers, physicians, hospitals and patients will have to push for them.

The very expression “fecal transplant” is at least giggle, if not gag inducing. The term “biome reconstitution” is much cooler and should probably be the term we use, so perhaps we can get past being grossed out and move forward towards helping sick people get well.
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby erinc14 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:42 am

listen to I guess the last 5 minutes .

was on this morning . basically said regarding c-dif it's very effective but there's too much ick and not enough profit .

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Au ... 367140262/
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby NHE » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:15 am

Fecal Transplant Shown To Treat Inflammatory Bowel Disease In Children
http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/14 ... isease.htm
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby Anonymoose » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:04 am

Posting this link here too (sorry if this is a faux pas).
Robopoo! The future of FT?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb ... 50058.html
http://www.microbiomejournal.com/conten ... 18-1-3.pdf
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby Gogo » Tue May 14, 2013 1:36 am

If I know it right the 3 patients Dr Borody treated were RRMS. German researchers showed gut bacteria linkage to MS in the mice model of MS, which also is similar to RRMS. So, bad bacteria in the gut might trigger autoimmunity. It is also known that autoimmunity is not significant in progresive patients. So, FMT most likely not help progressive patients, unless they still have active lesions. Anyone has different info on this? Any reported case on progressive patient benefited from FMT?

As for abx, it destroys gut flora significantly if you take it for a long time. That is exactly the opposite to what FMT does. :) I have not seen any hard evidence on how abx works for MS patients. It might just have an immunmodulatory effect. Bad bacteria might be killed by abx, but good ones too. :) I do not believe that either diet or probiotics can have such a powerful effect as FMT. Folks advocating probiotics forget that probiotics are not regulated by FDA and as Consumer Lab reports it most do not contain what it states on its label. So, it is just an expensive placebo. :) The same goes for all the vitamins. :) As for diets, so many different, contradictory diets and no significant results, even hundreds of thousands people follow something. Most results just placebo. :)

FMT sounds interesting in light of the German research results and Dr Borody documented three patients; however, what I read out from these data that FMT might be beneficial for only RRMS patients. I hope I am not right. :)
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby lyndacarol » Mon May 20, 2013 5:56 pm

On Friday, May 17, 2013, one of the topics on The Dr. Oz Show was fecal transplants (beginning@3:15):

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/wacky-he ... -test-pt-1

The procedure was described in part one as being especially effective against C. difficile, which often appears after antibiotic use.

The animation of the procedure and probable mechanism of this treatment continues in part two along with the testimonial of a successful patient:

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/wacky-he ... -test-pt-2

Dr. Oz seems quite positive about the treatment.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby Liberation » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:20 am

Anyone tried FMT since?
There are many groups trying to study if gut microbiota has a role in MS. Some think that there are disease promoting bacteria within the normal microbiota of patients. In Germany, they could even induce MS symptoms in mice by altering the gut micobiota. It is really interesting that after some articles in the news about Dr Zamboni's findings many patients jumped into angioplasty, which is far more risky procedure than FMT, but we can not hear about people trying FMT. Even though, initial findings on FMT were even more compelling than the ones on CCSVI.
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby daniel » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:48 am

I'm totally interested in trying FMT, just wouldn't know where to start to find a local doc willing to give it a go
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby brm » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:26 pm

Do you perhaps have a link to that German study? Sounds really interesting!
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby cervocuit » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:19 am

Liberation wrote:...
It is really interesting that after some articles in the news about Dr Zamboni's findings many patients jumped into angioplasty, which is far more risky procedure than FMT, but we can not hear about people trying FMT. Even though, initial findings on FMT were even more compelling than the ones on CCSVI.
CCSVI has had success because of very strong personnalities have been fascinated by one improbable paper picked up on internet and have highly communicated on it, and even pushed TV for making a documentary on it.

Cheerleader, if you read this… I wonder what you think about FMT, regarding your pre-CCSVI times posts.
For exemple, in Jan 2008 :
regimens-f22/topic4975.html
Cheerleader wrote:...
As far as the garlic, my husband has always had stomach virus issues, many bouts of food poisoning, leaky gut and malabsorption. Didn't put it together until his MS diagnosis. We think his digestive system was the area that needed most detox and healing.
...
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby Liberation » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:33 am

brm wrote:Do you perhaps have a link to that German study? Sounds really interesting!


You will find it at the website of Planck Institute, Germany. They have several studies there.
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby Liberation » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:48 am

cervocuit wrote:
Liberation wrote:...
It is really interesting that after some articles in the news about Dr Zamboni's findings many patients jumped into angioplasty, which is far more risky procedure than FMT, but we can not hear about people trying FMT. Even though, initial findings on FMT were even more compelling than the ones on CCSVI.
CCSVI has had success because of very strong personnalities have been fascinated by one improbable paper picked up on internet and have highly communicated on it, and even pushed TV for making a documentary on it.

Cheerleader, if you read this… I wonder what you think about FMT, regarding your pre-CCSVI times posts.
For exemple, in Jan 2008 :
regimens-f22/topic4975.html
Cheerleader wrote:...
As far as the garlic, my husband has always had stomach virus issues, many bouts of food poisoning, leaky gut and malabsorption. Didn't put it together until his MS diagnosis. We think his digestive system was the area that needed most detox and healing.
...


I think you are right. It is good marketing and good profitibality.

I do not think that anyone on this Earth knows the answer what causes MS and how to stop progression, but looking at risk/benefit ratio, I would think FMT would deserve more attention. In worst case, FMT might only stops constipation or other bowel problems that sometimes is associated with MS. ...Some day, clinics might see profits in it as they did with CCSVI.
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby cervocuit » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:54 am

There are many clinics that do FMT for C.diff infection now thanks to a recent paper. Still a very few for other bowel condition but perhaps in a near future.
the list on this website. There is a lot of information on it, also a forum of discussion.
http://thepowerofpoop.com/
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby cervocuit » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:38 am

The microbiome in MS will be one of the 6 « hot topic » at ECTRIMS 2013
http://registration.akm.ch/einsicht.php ... N_ID=15676
Too bad that there is no descrition of the second presentation.
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Re: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - 3 cases

Postby SLOV8213 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:27 pm

I read this article some time ago when looking for treatments of my supposed IBS diagnosis. I'm convinced the GI tract as a large role in MS. Does any one know where you can get treated in Western Canada?
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