Help with MRI

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Help with MRI

Postby Laney » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:13 pm

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone has insight on what this means " The major intracranial vessel flow- voids are present. "

This was on my MRI of my brain that I had done and my Neuro hasn't been up front with me on a few things
I am going for a second opinion on the 17th after a year and a half of suffering.

Any info given will be appreciated!

Laney
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:28 am

Effects of spin motion on the MR signal
http://www.medcyclopaedia.com/library/t ... ignal.aspx

Absence of normal flow void on MR
http://www.radiologyassistant.nl/en/4befacb3e4691
On spin-echo images patent cerebral veins usually will demonstrate low signal intensity due to flow void.
Flow voids are best seen on T2-weighted and FLAIR images, but can sometimes also be seen on T1-weighted images.
A thrombus will manifest as absence of flow void.
Although this is not a completely reliable sign, it is often one of the first things, that make you think of the possibility of venous thrombosis.
The next step has to be a contrast enhanced study.

On the left a T2-weighted image with normal flow void in the right sigmoid sinus and jugular vein (blue arrow).
On the left there is abnormal high signal as a result of thrombosis (red arrow).
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby Laney » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:59 am

Thanks for the quick reply! The MRI was actually done with contrast. This issue is among others with my MRIs I have had done on my brain. I have many symptoms of ms and have lesions or it has on the MRI "punctates and globular foci of increased T2 intensity in the subcortical deep white matter predominantly of frontal lobe area in the brain".

My current neurologist just keeps saying in his heart of hearts he doesn't want to stick me with this diagnosis although it appears that I do have a demyelinating disease. He said once you are diagnosed with ms its down hill from there
Hopefully the having a new set of eyes taking a look at everything will shed some light on the situation.
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby daverestonvirginia » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:33 pm

Wow your doctor actually said "once you are diagnosed with MS its downhill from there” that’s terrible. I think I would look for a new doctor right away. Actually, I believe it’s important to get the dx because than you can start taking the steps necessary to ensure it is not a “downhill” ride. After I was diagnosed over seven years ago I started Copaxone, the best bet diet, and taking vitamin’s including I believe most important vitamin d. Just last night I went on a 20 mile bike ride. Now I understand MS can affect people differently, but if you do not try to make changes to fight it you will never know if they could have helped.
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:05 pm

i personally think ms is way overdiagnosed, too easy. i think the diagnostic criteria need an upgrade, as do most of the reference ranges for nutrients. as it is now, you hit a certain number of benchmarks, and then they stop asking why, and start prescribing drugs. meanwhile most of the patients have nutrient problems that just slide by under the radar. if your neuro is reluctant to dx you with ms i think you might actually be lucky in that he may be more open to looking at alternative explanations for your symptoms. if i may ask, what are the symptoms you are dealing with? if you post a list, i can let you know if any nutrition links exist.
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby Laney » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:23 pm

My first experience with symptoms began in 1999 when I was pregnant with my son. I started having tingling/ pins and needles in my hands and feet that was worsened when I was hot or when I took a warm or hot shower. I called the ob/gyn and their first suspicion was diabetes. They did blood work even tested me for stds, infections... you name it. Finally sent me to do an extensive glucose test twice. It was negative. By this time, I was unable to pick up small objects like coins for example. I also had some pretty severe bowel issues going on so they really didn't know what was wrong with me. They referred me to a neurologist and she did a lot of blood work to ensure it wasn't a vitamin deficiency. Everything was normal so they sent me for an MRI. I was never given the medical term for it but it was explained as a virus (like a flu that we get in our bodies) inside my spine that made a hole over a nerve in the spine that was actually causing my issue with my hands and feet. She told me I was fortunate because some people lose the ability to walk when this happens and others have respiratory issues, as well. She also said this is very rare and that if this happens twice in a persons life they have MS.

I just remember thinking that would never be me. I was 22. She even gave me a time frame on regaining the feeling again and being free of the pins and needles...6 months. She was very accurate on that. The records at that office have since been destroyed and my ob/gyn even looked for me to see if they had any kind of report since they still have my records from even back then.

Over the years I have suffered from dizziness which always was on a come and go basis. Heat aggravated it and I even wore a heart monitor at one point to ensure my heart is healthy.

Last year in February I started having intense leg pain and saw my PCP. He told me to take calcium and see if that resolves it. By Monday morning I was calling him back even more miserable. I had an MRI and found out I have a herniation in my lumbar spine. Long story short, I started having more issues and had to have more MRIs....found out about the lesions and found out I have a herniation in my thoracic spine which was causing my chest and rib pain I found out I have bulging disc in my neck with some spinal stenosis causing pins and needles (just found this out last week after over a year) and weakness in my left arm.

My neurologist also failed to share with me that there were questions about abnormality with the occipital bone on the right side and the c1 vertebrae from last years MRI. His PA told me about it and said felt it may have been congenital so they didn't look into it further.

Some of my symptoms are: dizziness everyday, extreme fatigue worsened by heat, mild case of iritis in January, pins and needles in my feet and hands off and on, headaches, vision issues when I am tired, left lower eyelid has been twitching since may (was 24/7 for 6 weeks) now off and on...currently for the last three days. ( insurance won't pay for botox). I have tingling in my face a lot. My legs feel heavy often. Gosh...there's so much it is actually hard to sit down and type it all. The weird thing is that this all hit me at one time and I had about 10 months where I felt pretty good and was exercising daily. Now I feel as if I have regressed.

I have also had some bladder issues...the list goes on.
It really has been a difficult road and to be at work everyday and to put my actors cap on and smile when I greet patients isn't always easy. I actually had one yesterday who has MS who looked at me and said." If you ever get a chance to try MS I don't suggest it..."


I was speechless!

Please excuse crazy punctuation or grammar.... using my wonderful touch screen phone!
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:00 am

thanks for all that detail! esp working on a phone, my goodness. i'm going to go through what you've posted and flag potential nutritional connections.

first off, i think it could be significant that your first symptoms were noticed while you were pregnant. pregnancy is usually considered protective against ms relapse, and it's also known to be a considerable nutrient drain on the mother. one significant nutrient involved is zinc, and since you mention bowel issues, which also flag zinc for me, i wonder if you're comfortable describing these issues in any more detail? the daily exercise comment also makes me strongly suspect nutrient deficits.

it's amazing that your neuro ran nutritional bloodwork and i wonder if they did more than b12 and d3 - but if the records were destroyed the point is moot anyway. so is the 'normal' concept, if you haven't already read about in my 'regimen' thread, i think you might find it enlightening.

there have been a few studies on nutrition as connected with balance/vertigo - could be worth investigating b12, magnesium and zinc status.

can you describe the leg pain you had last year in feb? was it a cramping muscle pain, a surface burning pain? or a deep bone pain? joints? i have to say, i'd be more likely to look at magnesium and vitamin d3 (d3 helps you utilize calcium by the way).

i've just recently posted some spinal issue info that i had sent to my brother, so i'll link you up to that here via an edit shortly.

iritis makes me think of zinc, as do vision issues, and the headaches and twitching make me think of magnesium. if you can get the doc to run a few basic tests the information could prove useful.

thanks for taking the time to type all that out. i'll be back with links but it might not be right away.. bbl!
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby Laney » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:22 am

Hi,
When I was pregnant with the issue she ran a full panel on every vitamin deficiency you can be tested for
This was all done before the MRI, of course, being that the MRI is a lot more expensive. The only other medical term used at the time for the hole in my spine was "lesion". Also, shortly before all of this I had an extreme case of constipation which lasted for two weeks. It resulted in fissures and I have never experienced anything like that in my life.

I work for an eye doctor as a doctors assistant so he and my neurologist have been monitoring my twitching and my boss keeps a close eye on the inside health of my eye. My iritis was resolved in a week and I also.have lattice Degeneration so he keeps a close eye on that. My actual issue only happens at night when I am tired. I have some ghosting of images...not everything in the room is blurred.... I can move my hand and that same faint ghosted blur will follow wherever i move my hand or any other object...yet I look around the room everything's clear except maybe a light or something. Its almost as if fixed objects are clear moving are not. I haven't got it down to a science yet.

I was seeing a neurosurgeon for my lower back. They said I need surgery. I have already delayed it a year. He told me I have some sort of demyelinating disease after first MRI but didn't elaborate . My chiro thinks I have a mild form of Ms.

Wow...I am sure I am leaving something out. I do have balance issues.... no inner ear problems. They tested that. I have had tens of thousands of dollars in testing done. Its crazy.

Thanks for taking time to read my post and analyze... lol!

I do take vitamin b comlex, fiber and omega 3 for probably at least 8-10 months now.

This all made me start taking closer attention to things like that and being 35....haha!

Thanks again!
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:49 am

hmm you don't happen to have those vitamin test results from when you were pregnant, do you? b/c lab tests aren't usually specific enough. the 'normal' ranges are just a stats bell curve including sick and healthy people. the healthy control means and ranges in research are much tighter bands. i'd be very interested to compare your results to research.

as for constipation, hydration and flax (fibre) are choices i've found useful, and some of the inorganic less soluble forms of magnesium supplements (such as magnesium oxide) are a sometimes unfortunately effective laxative! (recently chatted with a friend of my mum's who threw out her magnesium supplement because it gave her diarrhea - undoubtedly an insoluble form)

b-complex, fibre and omega-3 are good choices. can you tell me what strength the b-complex is, and the specific form of b12 used? (ie is it cyanocobalamin, or a more bioavailable option eg methylcobalamin?)
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby Laney » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:30 pm

Hi,
I.don't have my results from the testing they did for vitamin deficiency. I had it done returning after 12 years to the same neurology practice and again all was normal.

I typically take super b complex and I m not sure about the strength
I know it includes vitamin c.
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:01 am

ok re bloodwork and 'normal' results, please read here (scroll to the bloodwork section) for intro unpacking of the term 'normal'.

fyi since you take super b-complex, ensure you don't get more than 100mg b6 per day (neurotoxicity), and if you have a super b-50, say, that uses something like methylcobalamin for the b12, that's ideal.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:06 am

actually just copying the pertinent info on 'normal' here:

The first thing to understand when beginning nutrition investigations, is the unfortunate language of the lab. Specifically, the term 'normal'.
The 'normal' range is often quite a broad range which in many cases includes both sick and healthy people.
There is a much smaller range within the normal range that can be described as 'optimal'.
For example, the normal range for zinc is 10-20 umol/L. ms patients average in the low teens. healthy controls average in the high teens.

One example of the danger of the word 'normal' is this: recently a patient here at TIMS asked for a zinc test and was told the level was fine. When the patient asked for the number it came back 10.083 umol/L. This patient was not told that the level was suboptimal, or even borderline deficient, just that it was 'fine' - ie the computer did not red flag it because the value was within the min and max setpoints. (6/30 edit: i was reading a source today which listed the normal range for zinc as 11.5 - 18.5 umol/L so by that definition of normal, the TIMS patient was actually deficient. just a different set up at the lab and you're 'fine')


also my lab uses 8.7 as the bottom of the normal range, ever since my result came back that low. it used to be 11.5 before my deficient result got rolled into the lab's range. my stepdaughter had zinc tested at a lab used by an infectious disease clinic in vancouver and their normal range was 9-14 umol/L. my mum's lab uses the research numbers (so far) 11.5-18.5 umol/L.

according to research, optimal serum zinc is between 18 and 19 umol/L.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby Laney » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:42 pm

My chiropractor gave me a magnesium supplement to try out today. We will see how it helps out.
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:47 pm

nice, what form is it? citrate? glycinate? oxide? also, does it say how much elemental magnesium it contains per pill/serving?
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Help with MRI

Postby Laney » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:27 pm

Its a powder that i mix with water. Its called Natural Calm Magnesium Citrate. He said it is wonderful for helping you sleep better and is great for the bones. You can Google it and it actually is the first to come up. He gaveme several sample of the orange to try out.
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