This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2818.full


What do you think, Zincbreath? Oops...I mean Jimmylegs. Those darn typos! Is that fear I smell?

(For those who read this outside of current context, we are debating which came first hypercortisolemia or nutrient deficiency.)

same thing i thought the other day

your post jan 9
chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic14805-240.html#p203083
(as above, or close enough)

my reply jan 10
chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic14805-240.html#p203112

clearly strong interconnections. found an amazing article that breaks it all down in super detail
http://dc.library.okstate.edu/cdm/singl ... _container

"In general, cortisol is seen together with pro-inflammatory factors due to the fact that high blood cortisol levels are triggered by inflammatory cytokines. As well, immunological constraints like protein energy malnutriton or zinc deficiency are known to cause high serum cortisol (32, 202). ... low dietary zinc is associated with oxidative damage of DNA ... Zinc status is also associated with cortisol (24). Cortisol is a glucocorticoid hormone from the hypothalamic-pituary-adrenal (HPA) axis that acts as an important stress marker. Stress of any kind, such as anxiety, strenuous exercise, inflammation or malnutrition triggers the excretion of cortisol from the adrenal glands (25, 26). For instance, protein energy malnutriton is often seen in conjunction with low zinc intake and increased serum cortisol concentrations. Elevated cortisol in turn suppresses inflammatory cytokines and prevents an overwhelming inflammatory reaction (27-29) by downregulating the expression of inflammatory cytokines (30, 31)."

so given these causes for elevated cortisol: anxiety and exercise both cause nutritional depletion, obviously so does mal- or mis- nutrition, and the inflammation deal is a catch 22 of sorts given that inflammation would increase cortisol resulting in inflammation etc etc etc.

"... Zinc deficiency is widespread in developing countries and can still be found in developed countries. The main reason for zinc deficiency is poor dietary intakes (86). ... In developing countries where women and children are especially likely to have low meat intake, diets are also typically high in fiber and phytate. This may also be true for certain diets found in developed countries (e.g., the vegan diet). Low meat consumption and high intake of minimally processed grains are suspected to be the root cause of impaired zinc status. In plant-based diets with small amounts of animal-source foods, multiple nutrient deficiencies are likely to develop (64, 90)."

and that would be me...

refer also to figure 6 in the pdf doc. note that all causes of stress heading for the HPA axis are either caused by or can cause nutrient deficits:
Figure 6: Effect of stress from different sources, such as malnutrition, exercise, trauma, inflammation, on the cortisol pathway via the HPA axis, adapted from Bowen, 2006 (200).

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my approach: no meds so far - just balanced whole foods (partial 'paleo', much less outright elimination), science, supplements, & bloodwork
my regimen - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com

Memory issues anyone? I'll read or should I say re-read up on that once I've gotten over being disgusted with myself. Luckily my short term memory issues should make that happen rather quickly.

That paper is rich. I think I was distracted and lazy when you posted the link. No wonder it fell out of my head!

Strange coincidence probably not worth notice--my neurologist said MS is unheard of in Africa and this study took place in Ethiopia. Zinc deficient but no MS...they must not have Scandinavian genes.

From Jimmylegs link...interesting stuff
http://dc.library.okstate.edu/cdm/singl ... _container

Then why do they keep saying the best way to increase zinc is to eat meat?? I need numbers on that.


Don't vegetarians have different nutritional profiles and requirements? We don't need the same levels of certain nutrients because we don't have to go through the horrendous process of digesting meat. I'll have to look that up another day. I just want to enjoy my cleaned up browser for a day or two.

Figure 6 is compelling...it would be more so if it were a loop with cortisol at the top. One thing is certain, if my zinc hasn't gotten into proper ranges after 6 months of Clonidine, I'm bringing the zinc back out of the depths of my closet.

Your patience with my airheadedness is much appreciated

Anonymoose – Clonidine is prescribed for high blood pressure, right? Apparently, punicalagin (potent antioxidant in pomegranate) might also be able to cause a drop in blood pressure. Might it also reduce aldosterone?

http://cardiovascre.oxfordjournals.org/ ... 4.full.pdf

On page 415: "Regular pomegranate juice administered to hypertensive patients caused a significant drop in blood pressure, a reduction in carotid plaque development, and an improvement of stress-induced myocardial ischemia in patients who have coronary heart disease."

AND to you both… Don't leave me out – I think insulin works in here somewhere. Don't forget that cortisol (and other glucocorticosteroids such as prednisone, Solu-Medrol) raises the glucose level and, consequently, the INSULIN level.

Also… Visceral fat increases cytokines, which increase insulin, which promotes inflammation, which causes more visceral fat….

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My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"

Yes, clonidine is an anti-hypertensive but it works specifically to inhibit ACTH release...which in turn decreases cortisol and aldosterone levels and probably does some stuff with nutrients too but that's jimmyleg territory so I'll leave it to her...mostly. lol I don't know if pomegranate juice will have the same effect because there are many different ways to reduce blood pressure. I will look into it though. Thanks for the tip!

I haven't forgotten your insulin theory at all! I left you an insulin egg in my clonidine diary expecting you to chime in but you didn't! I figured my sudden lack of getting hungry-sick was related to some sort of correction in whatever is happening with my insulin. I'm not the expert there either so I'm not going to expand upon it. Any ideas? If I'm still on the clonidine and its still working next Christmas I'll really test it out by forgetting about my need to moderate my sweets intake. It's a sacrifice, but I'm willing to do it for the sake of science. If I still get ms'y as a result, we should know (kinda) the insulin issue wasn't corrected by clonidine.