mri question

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mri question

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:41 am

hi :)

so i was just diagnosed 6 weeks ago. in the last week, my lhermitte's sign went away. so i'm curious - will the lesion that caused the lhermitte's still show up on the mri, or do lesions go back to looking like healthy tissue between attacks?
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Postby LindaR » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:37 pm

Hello jimmylegs. I was diagnosed 2 years ago. My first MRI showed 15 lesions. Last year's MRI showed to new lesions but I still had the 15 old ones. This year's MRI showed less than 5 lesions so they can heal.
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Characteristics of Brain MRIs

Postby Shayk » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:27 pm

Hi Jimmylegs

Here's some info that reinforces Linda's experience. Characteristics of MRIs
CONCLUSIONS: Most of the MRI GD enhanced lesions disappear in 4 weeks. Very few can last more than 2 years.

It's terrific the L'hermitte's sign went away so quickly. I haven't had that (yet) but I've read about it. I hope you continue to do well.

Take care

Sharon
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Re: mri question

Postby NHE » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:01 pm

Sharon,
Thanks for the link to that paper. Unfortunately, I don't read Chinese and I think something might have been lost during the English translation of the abstract. For example...
Of the 298 enhanced MRI lesions 207 (69.5%) lasted less than 4 weeks, 251 (84.2%) 8 weeks, and 272 (91.3%) 12 weeks.

This sentence just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Granted, one could interpret it to mean that roughly 2/3 of the lesions they followed lasted less than 4 weeks AND that there were fewer lesions lasting for either 8 or 12 weeks. However, that's not what it says exactly so there's still some ambiguity. Were you able to find other papers which reported similar findings to this paper's implied results?

NHE
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Postby SarahLonglands » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:45 am

I'm a bit mystified as well: I had four sequential MRIs in the space of two years, to gauge the effect of abx on SPMS. After one year some around the periphery had disappeared, but most were still there, albeit somewhat smaller or less intense. No new ones, though, which is what counts.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby Shayk » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:14 am

Hi NHE and Sarah

NHE--Sorry, I don't know Chinese either :wink: . Undoubtedly there could be a problem in translation. I also don't know if there have been other studies which show similar results. However, this Interview with Daniel Pelletier About MRIs from the Boston Cure site seems to confirm the findings from that study.
Another thing we’re learning is that lesions have a lifespan. Generally they appear, then later they disappear. If we have the luxury of scanning someone on a weekly basis, we can see lesions going away over time. Something we’ve found out with MR is that the longer a lesion shows Gd-enhancement, the more likely it is that the lesion will have axonal damage. The life of a Gd enhancing lesion is three to four weeks on average, but if it lasts six, eight, ten weeks, it’s more likely we will see more severe tissue damage there.

I originally read this interview some time ago and for those with an interest in MRIs I think it provides a nice overview. It's a pdf file.

Take care.

Sharon
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thx

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:58 am

thanks for the feedback all :)
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Postby scoobyjude » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:05 pm

Sorry, I am completely dumb when it comes to technical, scientific speak so if the answer to this question is obvious, please excuse me. I still have my 2 original lesions from 2 years ago but they were only gd enhanced on my first MRI. Subsequently at 3 and 6 months later they did not enhance. I just had MRIs in January and they are still there, slightly improved, and not enhancing. What does this mean then? If they are not enhancing but did not disappear, does that mean more severe tissue damage or is it just if they are enhancing and haven't disappeared? Am I totally reading this wrong? If it's true that they have a lifespan then I'm confused because my neuro told me I'd probably have them the rest of my life like any other scar. Me confused :?
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gd enhancement

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:33 am

hi there, u gotta love the mri jargon don't ya! i swear i spend half my time on wikipedia, figuring out what the hell everyone's talking about.

for u, it sounds like they only shot u up with gadolinium (gd) on the first mri? gd is a chemical agent they put in so they can enhance/see lesion vs healthy better, or at least that's my understanding. i think the lifespan of a lesion may be the time in which it is actively demyelinating, after which it can be a scar???

take care :)
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Postby scoobyjude » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:31 pm

Actually I've had gadolinium every MRI I've had but it would make sense that after it's done demyelinating it would become a scar. That could be what my neuro meant I guess. I just was confused when it was said that they disappeared after a short period. Actually I'm still confused but that's nothing new. Thanks
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Re: mri question

Postby NHE » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:35 pm

Scoobyjude wrote:I just was confused when it was said that they disappeared after a short period. Actually I'm still confused but that's nothing new. Thanks

Gadolinium reveals the permeability of the blood brain barrier. In effect, it shows where white blood cells are currently crossing the blood barrier to do their dirty work. It's the non-enhancing lesions which are the ones that can stick around for a while. That's probably what your neurologist was referring to. It's both annoying and unfortunate that they don't take the time to explain things in terms that patients can readily understand.

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Postby scoobyjude » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:06 pm

Thanks, that does make more sense. It seems like most of our neurologists don't completely explain things to us because we have to come to this site and ask each other. It is annoying since that's what they get paid for. Thank God there are people on this site who understand all this medical speak more than I do or I'd be lost. :D
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Oh my aching ...

Postby Outlawbiker » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:19 pm

lesions!

I was under the impression that once the lesions had developed (whether enhancing or not with contrast) that a permanent scar was left. I've had them in the 2-3 dozen as far as count goes with none of them appearing "active" as when Gadolinium is used for contrast. My last MRI in 2004 showed that there were no new lesions present but that one appeard to have gotten a bit larger. It was explained to me that maybe it had gotten larger or that maybe the angle at which the slices were made this last session may have been slightly at a different angle thus making the lesion appear different.

Wow! 8O I read somewhere on here somebody's lost 5 lesions completely?!!! I want to know what kind of diet or supliments can help fill the holes left by the scarring?
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Postby scoobyjude » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:01 pm

That's what I was told too but I guess some people are different and their lesions do disappear. Wish I could figure out a way to make mine do that too :D
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