An all-encompassing explanation of MS

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An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby Anonymoose » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:34 am

Please feel free to pick this idea apart or fill the holes that are there. There are some pretty big assumptions being made but sometimes that actually works. :P

RRMS-

Cause 1: Chronic high stress induces atrophy of hippocampus and hpa-axis dysregulation. This dysregulation, in concert with CYP450 crappy genes, yields extra-hyper response in hpa-axis. The resulting high cortisol and aldosterone act together to give us lesions but slow, easy progression. In RRMS, some sensitivity to GC remains allowing periods of remission and irregular progression. Correction of hpa-axis dysregulation halts MS. (That would be me, I think. I'm testing that hpa-axis correction theory as I type)

Cause 2: Compression of RVLM and adjacent cranial nerve roots, either by CSF or skeletal compression, yields markedly greater symptoms of motor issues and autonomic dysfunction. Compression of vagus nerve interferes with negative feedback loop governing hpa-axis. CYP450 crappy genes cause extra high cortisol and aldosterone which in turn give us lesions. GCRs maintain some sensitivity to GCs allowing periods of remission and irregular progression. Decompression of RVLM and cranial nerve roots yields improvements and stops MS if hpa-axis corrects.

Cause 3: Compression of RVLM and adjacent cranial nerve roots, either by CSF or skeletal compression, yields markedly greater symptoms of motor issues and autonomic dysfunction. Compression of vagus nerve interferes with negative feedback loop governing hpa-axis causing dysregulation. In absence of crappy CYP450 genes, cortisol and aldosterone levels do not increase as greatly as in cause 1 and cause 2 so lesions are few to none. Relapses and remissions can be attributed to fluctuations in RVLM and cranial nerve root compression. Decompression renders recovery and cessation of MS if hpa-axis is corrected.

SPMS-

Same as RRMS cause 1 and 2 only due to long overexposure to excess cortisol, all sensitivity to GC is gone yielding steady progression. Correction of hpa-axis dysregulation halts MS.
or
Same as RRMS cause 3, but RVLM and cranial nerve compression are no longer spontaneously relieved. Decompression results in partial recovery and stops MS if hpa-axis corrects.

PPMS-

With lesions: Consistent compression of RVLM and adjacent cranial nerves causes motor, autonomic, and hpa-axis dysregulation. Lesions are caused by crappy CYP450 genes which cause hippocampus atrophy, greater release of cortisol and aldosterone than in people with good CYP450 genes and dysregulation. Decompression results in partial recovery. MS stops if hpa-axis is corrected.

No lesions: Consistent compression of RVLM and adjacent cranial nerves causes motor, autonomic, and hpa-axis dysregulation. Lesions are few to none as the crappy CYP450 genes aren't involved. Decompression results in partial recovery and cessation of MS if hpa-axis is corrected.

Edited to remove my disproven neurovascular compression theory...replaced with CSF compression.
Last edited by Anonymoose on Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby Anonymoose » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:43 pm

Filling a hole...Why do we feel relapses if location of lesions in the brain don't correspond with clinical symptoms?

When the BBB is broken and a massive immune response ensues, the body releases ACTH to keep the immune response in check. The release of ACTH causes a great release of cortisol and aldosterone. High cortisol makes you fatigued. High aldosterone (likely) causes muscle tension which can compress nerves, causing sensory and motor issues. (When I started inhibiting my aldosterone production, my muscle tension decreased dramatically. My sensory issues also decreased but it wasn't dramatic until I started stretching the related nerves.)

Active and inactive lesions in the spine also likely cause the sensory/motor issues.
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby danirs » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:24 am

That is great to read. I am wondering if you are getting any better after you are trying to fix your problem?

I read that HIV-1 is one of the reasons. Correct me if i am wrong but i think that this virus is connected to AIDS. Am i wrong?

O, and how do you correct the HPA - Axis?
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby Anonymoose » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:59 am

danirs wrote:That is great to read. I am wondering if you are getting any better after you are trying to fix your problem?

I read that HIV-1 is one of the reasons. Correct me if i am wrong but i think that this virus is connected to AIDS. Am i wrong?

O, and how do you correct the HPA - Axis?


Hi Danirs,

I am definitely feeling better with reduced symptoms (it's all in my clonidine diary in general forums if you are curious about specifics). Whether or not it's fixing the whole MS thing is yet to be seen. I hope so!

I haven't read up on HIV-1. AIDS did seem to occasionally come up in articles I was reading about BBB failures so maybe there is some cross-over of symptoms there. I could be completely wrong but I think looking at viruses and bacteria as a cause might be over-complicating things. I think ultimately the cause has to be connected to a collection of conditions seen in all MS patients. Viruses and bacteria don't seem to fall into that category. Again, I could be totally wrong but I'm going with that assumption for now. :)

HPA-axis dysregulation can be caused by chronic overexposure of the hippocampus to cortisol. It can cause the hippocampus to atrophy and lose sensitivity to cortisol. In healthy individuals, the hippocampus responds to cortisol and releases 'stuff' (lol) that inhibits/stops the release of cortisol and aldosterone. If your hippocampus is atrophied and insensitive to cortisol, this doesn't work very well. You wind up with HPA-axis dysregulation and the chronic release of too much cortisol and aldosterone. In Cushings syndrome (hypercortisolemia), if you reduce the amount of cortisol being secreted, the hippocampus recovers, regrows and becomes sensitive to cortisol again...giving you a corrected hpa-axis. (I think CCSVIers might need to decompress their vagus to allow for the negative feedback loop to work and if their hippocampus has been atrophied, suppress cortisol for a bit to allow it to regrow and resensitize)
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby danirs » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:06 am

I cannot find previous post of mine(because i am to lazy to look), but if you check my profile you will see that i have posted article about possible cause for MS - hormone disbalance and because cortisol is a hormone there are more links about this connection.

I am sure that the truth is lying somewhere, but the path is deep and unknown. For example - why i am getting sicker when there are Solar storms??? Not everyone MSer is like me.

Think about it.
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby Anonymoose » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:26 am

danirs wrote:I cannot find previous post of mine(because i am to lazy to look), but if you check my profile you will see that i have posted article about possible cause for MS - hormone disbalance and because cortisol is a hormone there are more links about this connection.

I am sure that the truth is lying somewhere, but the path is deep and unknown. For example - why i am getting sicker when there are Solar storms??? Not everyone MSer is like me.

Think about it.

Ooo! I'll look up your hormone posts today.

As for the solar storm question, I think it's a lot like how grandpa could tell a storm was coming in when his arthritis flared up...
http://manfredkaiser.com/weather_headaches.html
Studies suggest that environmental electromagnetism influences brain patterns, irritates nerves and changes body chemistry. Not so well researched is the possible negative effect of changes in the earth’s electromagnetic field during solar storms on headache and migraine. More evidence is available, however, to support the theory of ionization as trigger. Ions are particles in the air with either too many negative electrons (negatively charged), or with missing electrons (positively charged). Positive ionization is said to cause the release of excessive serotonin into the bloodstream. The resulting constriction and dilation of blood vessels in the brain triggers the headache or migraine.
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby danirs » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:37 am

Let me post a longer post so you can get my picture.

One year ago a specialist was using a special machine - used to analyse entire body of pilots and astronauts. A computer is scanning the entire body through special waves(you have something like a headphones). It catched a lot if things i know i have, but no MS. And the machine was set to check my entire brain and spine.

A few other specialist told me that this could be happening because of dirty blood. I have cysts in my kidneys(both of them).

But when i know that my mother and sister both have tyroid problems(my tyroid is a little bit bigger, but my levels are ok) and i was a lot stressed past few years, maybe there is some connection with the hormonal disbalance.

My MRI is not looking very good. A lot of lesions on brain and one on the C1

About the solar storms - it is known that during solar storms the blood vessels are more tight than normal.
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby Anonymoose » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:55 am

I think we are talking about the same thing. :) You mentioned stress. Stress causes increased release of cortisol and aldosterone. You mentioned kidney problems. The kidneys also trigger aldosterone production and have to cope with the effects of aldosterone abnormalities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renin%E2%8 ... sin_system
When blood volume is low, juxtaglomerular cells in the kidneys secrete renin directly into circulation. Plasma renin then carries out the conversion of angiotensinogen released by the liver to angiotensin I.[2] Angiotensin I is subsequently converted to angiotensin II by the enzyme angiotensin converting enzyme found in the lungs. Angiotensin II is a potent vaso-active peptide that causes blood vessels to constrict, resulting in increased blood pressure. Angiotensin II also stimulates the secretion of the hormone aldosterone from the adrenal cortex. Aldosterone causes the tubules of the kidneys to increase the reabsorption of sodium and water into the blood. This increases the volume of fluid in the body, which also increases blood pressure.

Does your hippocampus show atrophy? (That should be a given with MS but I thought I'd ask anyway.)
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby danirs » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:14 am

I do not know if it shows atrophy. Nobody told me something like that.

How do you manage to keep cortisol levels down? Is there a medicine for this. I know there is a food - adding thing to keep it down, but i don't believe Now Foods. I think their products are not good.
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby Anonymoose » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:44 am

danirs wrote:I do not know if it shows atrophy. Nobody told me something like that.

How do you manage to keep cortisol levels down? Is there a medicine for this. I know there is a food - adding thing to keep it down, but i don't believe Now Foods. I think their products are not good.

Hehe. You and Liberation are almost simultaneously asking the same questions on different threads. Here's a copy of my response to Lib.
I'm using clonidine to reduce cortisol (and aldosterone). It seemed to be the safest way to go when I was researching options. There is a cortisol and aldosterone synthase inhibitor (LCI699) stuck in phase II studies that would work. I'm not sure it would be the best option as it would leave the precursors floating around possibly causing high blood pressure. Then their is mitoxantrone and a bunch of other hard core drugs.

If you are curious about my response to Clonidine, I have a Clonidine diary in general forums. It seems to be doing good things for me. :)

I don't know if there is a natural way to guarantee reduction in cortisol production when dealing with an atrophied hippocampus. It's been studied and documented...people with MS have atrophied hippocampi from as early as CIS. It's pretty safe to assume you have an atrophied hippocampus.
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby Anonymoose » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:36 am

Another possible reason for lack of lesions or no new lesions with progression of MS...extra-low potassium due to years of high aldosterone levels. Correction of electrolyte imbalance in cells is so slow osmotic demyelination (general-discussion-f1/topic21592.html) doesn't occur. Continued clinical progression can be attributed to gray matter atrophy caused by hormonal imbalances and resulting nutritional deficiencies.

Low potassium symptoms that sound much like MS symptoms
http://voices.yahoo.com/signs-symptoms- ... 35412.html
There are quite a few signs that your potassium may be low. The symptoms of low potassium include: muscle weakness, unexplained exhaustion, metal fatigue and emotional instability, and heart problems to name a few. Low potassium will cause your muscles to become weak and unresponsive. Potassium is essential for proper muscle function. Low potassium will also cause you to be exhausted do to the fact that it is one of the key components that make up electrolytes. Without electrolytes, you'll feel week and fatigued. Electrolytes conduct electricity in the body, so it is important for good health.

Potassium supports the proper firing of neurons, and without it you will become mentally fatigued and emotionally unstable. You are more limited in your ability to control your emotions when you are low in potassium.
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby danirs » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:48 am

Anonymoose,

check this out:

http://digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T70041.html

I find this article interesting, because it is said that at night the cortisol levels are higher. In my case for example, when i wake up in the morning i am more stiffer than ever. It takes some 10-15 minutes so my legs can be better. The other thing i can think is, that most of the relapses a human can feel in the mornings. My first symptom was early in the morning.

I am sure that MS is a complex of hormone imbalance. You know that MS is more frequent in women than men. So are the hormone illness - more in women than Men.

One more thing - my Mom has thyroid disorder, my sister has thyroid disorder, maybe i have some other gland disorder, that makes my body feel crazy and shitty.

Check this out also : http://mssolution.blogspot.com/

Read and analyze :)
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby NHE » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:59 am

danirs wrote:I find this article interesting, because it is said that at night the cortisol levels are higher. In my case for example, when i wake up in the morning i am more stiffer than ever. It takes some 10-15 minutes so my legs can be better. The other thing i can think is, that most of the relapses a human can feel in the mornings. My first symptom was early in the morning.


My legs are stiff in the morning as well. I find it helpful to stretch them before I get out of bed. While laying on my back I pull one leg up towards my chest as far as I can and hold it for a count of 20 sec. I do this with the other leg and repeat the cycle a couple of times. I find it easier to start my day doing this simple stretch. Not only does it get my knees bending, but I can also feel it stretch the back of my thigh.

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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby Anonymoose » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:44 am

danirs wrote:Anonymoose,

check this out:

http://digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T70041.html

I find this article interesting, because it is said that at night the cortisol levels are higher. In my case for example, when i wake up in the morning i am more stiffer than ever. It takes some 10-15 minutes so my legs can be better. The other thing i can think is, that most of the relapses a human can feel in the mornings. My first symptom was early in the morning.

I am sure that MS is a complex of hormone imbalance. You know that MS is more frequent in women than men. So are the hormone illness - more in women than Men.

One more thing - my Mom has thyroid disorder, my sister has thyroid disorder, maybe i have some other gland disorder, that makes my body feel crazy and shitty.

Check this out also : http://mssolution.blogspot.com/

Read and analyze :)


Danir,

The normal circadian rhythm of cortisol peaks between 8am and 4pm. It should be at it's lowest at night. It can get knocked off schedule, but I don't think that is what makes you stiff in the morning. Aldosterone activity peaks while we sleep. Since I have been inhibiting aldosterone, I don't get stiff...at all. I used to have non-stop stiff, painful neck and shoulders. So, I think night time aldosterone increase and/or a less than perfect mattress might be making you stiff in the morning. I don't think the product they were speaking of on that site will help us. I think we have physical abnormalities that would preclude the effectiveness of some things that might help the "normal" person.

The second link is interesting. Progesterone blocks the receptors for both cortisol and aldosterone. I can feel the drop in progesterone during my menstrual cycle...it makes everything flare up a bit. Clonidine .1mg dampened this feeling a lot but not totally. I'm upping my dose to .2mg so I'll see if that stops the monthly pseudo-flare.

Keep digging! I think you are right in your suspicion of hormone imbalance. :)
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Re: An all-encompassing explanation of MS

Postby danirs » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:51 am

Anonymoose wrote:
danirs wrote:Anonymoose,

check this out:

http://digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T70041.html

I find this article interesting, because it is said that at night the cortisol levels are higher. In my case for example, when i wake up in the morning i am more stiffer than ever. It takes some 10-15 minutes so my legs can be better. The other thing i can think is, that most of the relapses a human can feel in the mornings. My first symptom was early in the morning.

I am sure that MS is a complex of hormone imbalance. You know that MS is more frequent in women than men. So are the hormone illness - more in women than Men.

One more thing - my Mom has thyroid disorder, my sister has thyroid disorder, maybe i have some other gland disorder, that makes my body feel crazy and shitty.

Check this out also : http://mssolution.blogspot.com/

Read and analyze :)


Danir,

The normal circadian rhythm of cortisol peaks between 8am and 4pm. It should be at it's lowest at night. It can get knocked off schedule, but I don't think that is what makes you stiff in the morning. Aldosterone activity peaks while we sleep. Since I have been inhibiting aldosterone, I don't get stiff...at all. I used to have non-stop stiff, painful neck and shoulders. So, I think night time aldosterone increase and/or a less than perfect mattress might be making you stiff in the morning. I don't think the product they were speaking of on that site will help us. I think we have physical abnormalities that would preclude the effectiveness of some things that might help the "normal" person.

The second link is interesting. Progesterone blocks the receptors for both cortisol and aldosterone. I can feel the drop in progesterone during my menstrual cycle...it makes everything flare up a bit. Clonidine .1mg dampened this feeling a lot but not totally. I'm upping my dose to .2mg so I'll see if that stops the monthly pseudo-flare.

Keep digging! I think you are right in your suspicion of hormone imbalance. :)


I will for sure. One thing i want to ask you - are you using chlondine just for stiffness or in major. I know that chlophasoline has chlonidine and is for high blood presure.
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