ms and deficiencies

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ms and deficiencies

Postby trisca » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:31 pm

I posted on here a few months ago about whether or not I should bother going to a doctor/neurologist. (I live in England.)

Since then (back at the end of November) I went and saw a gp. My gp has several in the practice and I took the first one that had an available appointment.

I essentially told him that I have had a re-emergence of ms symptoms and my legs were in spasm and that over the past five years my diet had become really crap (not many fruits/veg, lots of lamb/beef pies.) I showed him how, despite having long and strong fingernails my entire life, my nails break and peel and soon as they are longer than the fleshy bit.

He looked a little scared. He essentially said he's only ever had three ms patients and he doesn't know anything about it and that I had to go to a neurologist.

*Here's where my rant begins, feel free to skip this bit.*

I told him I just wanted to know if my vitamin levels where okay. He said I had to see a neuro. I said I would not see the one at the local hospital because he has a reputation of being useless then I went home. Two months later I got the appointment letter through, it was for a farther away hospital but for the same bloody neuro. So I phone and complained and said I really just wanted my vitamin levels checked. He phoned me and said that there was no medical indication that diet mattered for ms. So I said I'd go private. I'm still waiting for an appointment.

*end rant*

My question is, when I go back to the gp and, once again, complain and say all I really want is to know my vitamin levels I'd like to do so with a stack of papers in hand that shows him that vitamin/mineral levels are an issue in ms. Does anyone here know where I can find out that information?

Thanks.
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby Vivianne766 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:34 pm

Your GP is an idiot. can't believe he did not do a blood test for you.
What I would do i would not bring up my MS and would discuss other general symptoms.
As a annual check up he should order tests to check some stuff including "some" vitamin levels like any other person with/out MS
can have. It also depends on ur insurance.
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby lyndacarol » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:53 pm

trisca – First, you mentioned that there are several GPs in the practice you visited. Could you request one of the other GPs?

Second, I expect that jimmylegs will supply you with that "stack of papers" to convince any doctor of the importance of nutrient levels in MS.

And finally, since you mention that you live in England (I assume you received the BCG vaccine against tuberculosis as a child), and since I believe that MS symptoms are caused, in large part, by excess insulin, I encourage you to push your GP to order a "fasting blood insulin test."

I am on the mailing list of Dr. Denise Faustman, a Harvard University researcher working on a cure for type I diabetes. She has triggered increased insulin production from trial participants with previously non-producing pancreas. In her fall letter were links giving more information on her work: http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/192352 ... t-diabetes

Dr. Faustman is also doing research on MS, but I do not believe that the BCG vaccine will be successful against MS, as she believes – because of a friend's experience. My friend grew up in Ireland where she moved around often and attended several schools; a BCG vaccine was required at each new school (the BCG vaccine is required of school-age children in the UK)– she thinks she has received the BCG vaccine four times. She now has MS.

I think the increased insulin triggered by BCG, as Dr. Faustman has found it increases insulin secretion, will make MS worse (since I still believe the insulin/MS connection) . This vaccine uses attenuated (weakened), i.e., live bacteria. Is it possible that BCG (Bacillus Calmette-Guerin) continues to live in the body and is NOT eliminated by antibodies, OR that the bacterium changed the pancreas into chronically overproducing insulin? I think this BCG vaccine could be responsible for many cases of MS.

By the way, is there a hierarchy in your medical system? Is there a superior or someone higher in the "chain of command," to whom you can complain and effect a change in your doctor? Good luck.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:01 pm

i have a stack of papers posted on here somewhere. i will have to put them in my 'summary' post one day. in the meantime. you can expect me to link you up to some relevant abstracts shortly :) good idea to go armed with science!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby trisca » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:29 am

Thank you everyone.

Yes the gp is an idiot. Annual check ups don't exist in the UK! At least on the NHS.

I'm not from the UK, I'm Canadian. I just live here and occasionally have to put aside my fears and attend a doctor's office. I doubt I've had that vaccination unless it was routine in Canada in the 70s/80s. I don't know anything about the hierarchy, just that there's a whole pile of bureaucracy and that they like to write letters (the reason I haven't heard from the private neuro is that they have to write letters back and forth, apparently they've never heard of a telephone.)

Thank you Jimmylegs, I have a vision of me throwing it in his face but due to the short allocated appointment times for each patient he won't have time to read any of it.
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby want2bike » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:46 am

Your never going to change the way these doctors think. Might try a holistic doctor. I would for sure get the vitamin D level checked since that is related to autoimmune disease. Dr. Krupka and Dr. Cannell explains why we need the vitamin D and most people who are not spending time in the sun need this. Giving a site which checks vitamin D levels. Since we are all dilfferent it is hard to say exactly how much of each of these vitamins we need. Might be a good idea to start eating the fruits and vegetables because they have the vitamins and minerals your body needs. There nutrients in the fruits and vegatables which haven't been discovered yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhUuf2QZd_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--NqqB2nhBE

http://www.grassrootshealth.net/d-action
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:20 am

here is a link to some relevant abstracts.
general-discussion-f1/topic13204.html#p128490

i will have to do a proper collection of citations to support target levels for relevant nutrients, but for now, this next post has targets for an even wider variety of indicators, in the bloodwork section
general-discussion-f1/topic13204.html#p128490
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:34 am

ps all you have to do is take it to the doc and leave it there for review later. if you have a short list of tests on hand, and a page of research abstracts to back it up, a quick perusal of the essential tidbits from abstracts may be sufficient backup to achieve some buy-in. it worked wonders for mirry in 2010. if you read through her tale, her specialist decided to implement a nutrient optimization program for all the ms patients in his clinic.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby trisca » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:51 pm

Success! I had an neurologist appointment on Saturday and he was visibly shocked and annoyed that the gp hadn't immediately ordered blood work. He wrote out a form for me to take to the gp so he would know exactly what to ask for. I'm getting the blood taken tomorrow morning. I don't know exactly what they cover but it's overwhelmingly most of the boxes on the form.

He's also said I'm anaemic, which makes the fact that the gp didn't do blood work all the more stupid.
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:04 pm

awesome news! what exactly did the neuro write/check on the form? can you take a pic of it or something, to make your life easier than typing? (that is, if you have an easy place to post pics online, of course..)

anyway yeah - it's amazing what docs can fail to do. such as reading, for example.

a doc recently told a relative of mine that her serum ferritin was fine, but when she requested her own copy of results it said right on the lab paperwork that her levels were too low.

?!?!?!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:17 pm

trisca wrote:Success! I had an neurologist appointment on Saturday and he was visibly shocked and annoyed that the gp hadn't immediately ordered blood work. He wrote out a form for me to take to the gp so he would know exactly what to ask for. I'm getting the blood taken tomorrow morning. I don't know exactly what they cover but it's overwhelmingly most of the boxes on the form.

He's also said I'm anaemic, which makes the fact that the gp didn't do blood work all the more stupid.


Congratulations, trisca. The journey may be long, but you have taken the first step.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby trisca » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:41 am

The blood tests are for:

autoimmune profile, ANCA screen, anti-nuclear Ab screen (ANA), rheumatoid factor (serum), bone profile, B12/folate, ESR, full blood count ferritin, fasting lipid profile, liver function test, thyroid screening, renal profile (Na, K, Creat, Urea, eGFR)

I did say almost every box on the form was ticked!

Additionally the neurologist has put me on meds, it's the first time (in over 20 years) that I've ever taken meds for ms. Gabapentin 2x day for 100mg but I have to work it up to 600mg (this is for muscle spasms in my legs) and Amitriptyline (10mg 1day increased to 20mg, this is I think because I rarely sleep at night and to boost my seratonin levels.)

The neurologist also couldn't get over the fact that I haven't seen a dr about my ms since 2005. I said, why would I, I didn't have any problems? He said something about the UK approach being different from the Canada/US approach. I said I've always chosen the ostrich approach.
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:59 pm

glad to see b12/folate and ferritin, although those are pretty standard.

these are standard tests and good info, but not really the sort of tests that would flag the wide array of nutrient issues often seen in ms patients.

would be good to see serum levels of zinc, d3, and magnesium.. not to mention serum levels for copper. perhaps in future!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby trisca » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:24 pm

He said those tests would show magnesium and zinc, maybe they're all under one of those categories?
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Re: ms and deficiencies

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:39 pm

oh that's good news. yeah must be part of one of those panels. bone profile perhaps? hopefully they are serum values
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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