Do microwaved food and milk make your MS symbtoms worse, i

[stevelord]

In the day or two following drinking cows milk or eathing food out of a microwave, are youor MS symptoms worse, or maybe immediately after? Because of all the foods those two make my non MS autoimmune symptoms worse and also suppress my immune system, so those two both derange and suppress my immune system. Milk has been shown in at least one, maybe I saw two, studies to be a suspected culprit in causing MS, I think it goes, the people who drank the most milk are more likely to get MS and milk is thought to also cause diabetes one, the milk protein is. Cheese is not a problem nor is goat milk. Nothing rears up symptoms anywhere near as much , whether it be food or some other immune deranging act as those two foods. Btw my autoimmune disease affects my colon and stomach. I am not lactose intolerant.

Steve Lord

[jimmylegs]

not me. on either count. nb i was vegan for over a decade prior to dx. have started consuming diverse animal foods again - including dairy - in the past 7 years. much improved.

[stevelord]

not me. on either count. nb i was vegan for over a decade prior to dx. have started consuming diverse animal foods again - including dairy - in the past 7 years. much improved.

Hmm., ok, but I mean for the period of hours or up to a couple of days after drinking milk (not other dairy) do they get worse, because over a long period there may be other things that are causing the improvement. And do you drink milk every day? Maybe see on the days you drink milk what happens during the following 24 or 48 hours.

Steve Lord

[jimmylegs]

i don't drink milk by the glass at all. daily, i have milk in tea. during winter, half a cup at a time with oatmeal etc, several breakfasts per week. and, now that i think of it, prepared ahead on the stove top, fruit nuts seeds etc added, and then microwaved day-of, before eating.
the only discomfort i noticed over the past few months is when the store ran out of my steel cut oats and i bought a bag of multigrain hot cereal. i won't finish it. makes me feel a mild discomfort, hard to describe, but there. there's something in the multigrain blend that my system doesn't like.

[stevelord]

i don't drink milk by the glass at all. daily, i have milk in tea. during winter, half a cup at a time with oatmeal etc, several breakfasts per week. and, now that i think of it, prepared ahead on the stove top, fruit nuts seeds etc added, and then microwaved day-of, before eating.
the only discomfort i noticed over the past few months is when the store ran out of my steel cut oats and i bought a bag of multigrain hot cereal. i won't finish it. makes me feel a mild discomfort, hard to describe, but there. there's something in the multigrain blend that my system doesn't like.

Jummy, perhaps the boiling denatures teh milk protein just enough. How many years have you been microwaving. Fries me like an egg for as long as it takes to digest all the food I eat, and the milk the same. BTW my other food that affects me the most, though only a third as much as those two , is oatmeal. Its the beta glucan in it I think, an autoimmune reaction. As for multigrain, some people have celiac autoimmune disease due t othe gluten. At least Oats doesnt have gluten I dont think, It could be MS though is an antibody caused disease in which case what you eat would not show up until the antibodies were formed , not immediately as inn a a so called cell mediated disease, like my colitis.

Steve Lord

[stevelord]

PS, Jimmy, the only things stirred up my autoimmune disorder to give me symptoms as a vegan that I am is garbonzo beans, oatmeal, white flour, walnuts too much oil in a meal, like over fifty percent of the calories, any GMO food, and of course if it was microwaved, the big bomb.

I did try all foods though, onne at a time, meat in all forms, chicken, chicken eggs,, milk of course, all caused an autoimmune flare up in me, not severe but still symtoms. Note we woud not have eaten those in the jungle where we are alleged to have begun our evolution. Froglegs, birds like rock cornish game hen, turkey, quail eggs, snails did not cause an autoimmune reaction. NOte that we would have eaten bird eggs snails frogs, maybe even some birds, hence the turkey, did not cause autoimmune reactions. Proff the best diet is not paleo, but jungle, earlier evolution, more years of eathing there, longer time to accustome to the diet. Re chickens, they bred that beast into the ground, hence now causing autoimmune symptoms. Shelllfish is also quite bad on autoimmune. Cant remember re fish except I rmember sardines caused no reaction. Note they have bred cows into the ground too, hence enough unfamiliarity with its milk to mess with us, and goat milk is ok, not the degree of breeding to change it from the original.

Steve Lord

[jimmylegs]

ah, you're a vegan - i used to be FAR more sensitive to all kinds of foods as a vegan. do you know what your daily bioavailable zinc intakes are like, and your serum zinc levels? one issue among many related cascading ones, but a fundamental one..

[stevelord]

ah, you're a vegan - i used to be FAR more sensitive to all kinds of foods as a vegan. do you know what your daily bioavailable zinc intakes are like, and your serum zinc levels? one issue among many related cascading ones, but a fundamental one..

I take a zinc supplement, Jimmy, and a B12. Thanks.

Steve Lord

[jimmylegs]

my early supplementation with zinc was so far from the mark.. i only realized how bad it truly was after the bloodwork. my early days of b12 supplementation make an even worse story :S

[stevelord]

my early supplementation with zinc was so far from the mark.. i only realized how bad it truly was after the bloodwork. my early days of b12 supplementation make an even worse story :S

Jimmy, did you use the animal form o 12, because I got hammered using the vegetable form for a year, turns out it is not useful to the body, only the animal form is.

BUR re zinc, B12 or any nutrient, I learned from eating foods or supplements one at a time that I can tell when I am deficient in something if that nutrient is abundant in that food, in a couple of minutes evidently a tiny bit of it gets into the blood stream because I feel a rush of dopamine that remains until the entire food is digested. In that way I found out I was deficient in the following nutritnts the body wants, Zinc, B12, llycopene (in tomatoes), lutein (especially found in kale), omega 3 (flax oil) tocotrienol form of vitamin E (red palm oil), and something in orange vegetables, specifically yellow squash, something else in carrots, and both are in oranges. You will keep getting that dopanine pleasure feeling each time you eat that food until you finally are no longer deficient in tht nutrient. Its the body's evolved way to encourage you to keep eating that food until not deficient, by flooding you with dopamine pleasure.

Steve Lord

[jimmylegs]

can you clarify exactly what these 12 forms said on the labels? personally before i got sick i would use standard off the shelf cyanocobalamin (bacteria fermentation + potassium cyanide). once i was in decline and started reading more, i switched to bioavailable methylcobalamin (which i understand is produced for commercial use *from* cyanocobalamin - yay, food sources)

testing by feel does have a certain validity. but when things are going wrong i prefer to confirm the situation via lab testing. eg, i used to have numbness when i was b12 deficient, and accurate sensation when i was not. i only really began to understand how serious things were when i did the bloodwork. followed by mri, etc. too late now, played with fire too long and if 7 years are any indication, i have inflicted a degree of permanent damage.

[want2bike]

If you are having a problem with your digestive tract do not think you should be doing dariy are gluten. You should be taking some probiotics to rebuild your digestive tract. Eating fermented foods will help also. Gluten and dairy have been linked to autoimmune disease.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-h ... 79089.html



http://www.livingpaleo.com/probioticsgo ... ia-part-2/

http://www.motherearthliving.com/cookin ... foods.aspx

[stevelord]

can you clarify exactly what these 12 forms said on the labels? personally before i got sick i would use standard off the shelf cyanocobalamin (bacteria fermentation + potassium cyanide). once i was in decline and started reading more, i switched to bioavailable methylcobalamin (which i understand is produced for commercial use *from* cyanocobalamin - yay, food sources)

testing by feel does have a certain validity. but when things are going wrong i prefer to confirm the situation via lab testing. eg, i used to have numbness when i was b12 deficient, and accurate sensation when i was not. i only really began to understand how serious things were when i did the bloodwork. followed by mri, etc. too late now, played with fire too long and if 7 years are any indication, i have inflicted a degree of permanent damage.

Well I know they sell a vegetable form of b12 in my health food store, but what I took that got me deficient was from some plant growing in a stream in FLorida. I now take the accepted animal form, cyanocobalomin, which is what is in all the standard vitamin pills liie centrum, I have read vegetable form doesnt work. Im not sure why they would offer that in my health food store.

Steve Lord

[stevelord]

From Overcoming Multiple Sclerosis Websjte www.overcomingmultiplesclerosis.org/.

Cows Milk MS Connection
There has been long-standing opinion that cow’s milk consumption has a role to play in the development of MS. The dairy MS link has been strongly supported by recent high quality epidemiological work.1,2 These researchers found a very high correlation between cow’s milk consumption and MS all around the world. Laboratory work from Germany and Canada now provides a possible explanation of why this may be so.3,4 A number of cow’s milk proteins have been shown to be targeted by the immune cells of people with MS. Further injecting them into experimental animals has caused lesions to appear in the central nervous system of the animals. The cow's milk MS link is further reinforced by the finding that certain proteins in cow’s milk mimic part of myelin oligodendrocyte glycoprotein, the part of myelin thought to initiate the autoimmune reaction in MS.5
Not only is it likely that there is a strong dairy MS link, but there seems to be a link to diabetes as well, with similar suggestions now being made for cow’s milk being involved in its causation. Indeed, medical researchers are now so concerned about this that a worldwide study has begun in which children are being kept off cow’s milk to see whether diabetes can be prevented. Another very important study into the degenerative neurological disorder Parkinson’s Disease found that people who consumed more dairy products had 2-3 times the risk of getting the disease.6 This result is very likely to be correct as it involved over 135,000 men and women in the US, and used stringent methods for collecting data on food consumption. The researchers speculated that dairy products may have a generally toxic effect on nervous tissue.

The evidence about a dairy MS link is still not conclusive, but is highly suggestive and is strong enough for many people with MS to drop all cow’s milk products. Fortunately there are some very good alternatives, such as soy yoghurt. There are many reasons why cow’s milk shouldn’t be regarded as a particularly healthy food. Up to one in five Australian adults of British descent, two in five of Mediterranean descent, and four in five of aboriginal or Asian descent have lactose intolerance, and can get quite ill taking milk products. This can be in the form of mild or more severe bloating, flatulence, stomach cramps and diarrhea. Soy and rice milks don’t contain lactose. There are lots of good reasons not to drink cow’s milk.

The evidence is quite nicely laid out in Campbell’s best selling book The China Study.7 Campbell, a world renowned nutrition researcher argues from a very large base of accumulated medical evidence that the best diet for overall human health is a whole food, plant-based diet. For people with MS, the book is interesting reading, as he shows the links between animal fat and protein, and particularly cow’s milk, with MS and a range of other Western diseases.
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1. Malosse D, Perron H, Sasco A, et al. Correlation between milk and dairy product consumption and multiple sclerosis prevalence: a worldwide study. Neuroepidemiology 1992; 11:304-312.
2. Malosse D, Perron H. Correlation analysis between bovine populations, other farm animals, house pets, and multiple sclerosis prevalence. Neuroepidemiology 1993; 12:15-27.
3. Winer S, Astsaturov I, Cheung RK, et al. T cells of multiple sclerosis patients target a common environmental peptide that causes encephalitis in mice. J Immunol 2001; 166:4751-4756.
4. Stefferl A, Schubart A, Storch M, et al. Butyrophilin, a milk protein, modulates the encephalitogenic T cell response to myelin oligodendrocyte glycoprotein in experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis. J Immunol 2000; 165:2859-2865.
5. Mana P, Goodyear M, Bernard C, et al. Tolerance induction by molecular mimicry: prevention and suppression of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis with the milk protein butyrophilin. Int Immunol 2004; 16:489-499
6. Chen H, Zhang SM, Hernan MA, et al. Diet and Parkinson’s disease: a potential role of dairy products in men. Ann Neurol 2002; 52:793-801.
7. Campbell TC, Campbell TM. The China Study. New York: Benbella Books, 2006

Steve Lord

[stevelord]

With the above studies indicting milk as contributing to autoimmune disease and MS, that would be one more piece of evidence that MS is an autoimmune disease. I am also wondering why no one here has posted that they had noticed a worsening of their ms with milk drinking though, or with microwave. There must be a day or so lag after eating or drinking each, thus obscuring the association. The connection is so unmistakeable in me , because my autoimmune problem is in my stomach and colon , and is not antibody related. thus happens immediately after ingestion

And the effect is brutal. I would have to think that if people just gave up both of these they would notice an improvement in their MS sho. Iuld also mention that disected pure protein powder also is just as bad, but I took it alone, rather than put in a candy bar etc with other foods, dont know about those.

Steve Lord