Dirty Medicine

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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby HarryZ » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:18 pm

want2bike wrote:I was not addressing my last two post to you Mr. HarryZ but you appear to want to trash what I have said.


It doesn't matter if you wrote those posts to someone else or not. The content of most of your posts is ludicrous and doesn't make sense...and I'm not the only one who thinks this way about what you write.

The only drugs the FDA allows are those manufactured by the big drug companies.


That statement is simply false, wrong and inaccurate.

I posted the articles showing these drugs are usually not necessary and often kill people. Healing the body is not done with drugs.


Well I'm glad that you are well qualified to make such a determination. Please share with us your credentials that allow you to make these comments.

There are many good cancer treatments but you can't get them in this country.You have to go to a foreign country to get the treatment.


If you or anyone feel that these cancer treatments will work then by all means, travel to the foreign country and get the treatment. There is absolutely nothing preventing you from doing so.

You seem to want to argue about what constitutes a good drug. As I told you once before it is up to you to separate the good drugs from the bad. The only thing I can tell you is anything approved by the FDA should be avoided.


I'm not arguing what constitutes a good drug. I'm debating with you the comments that you have been making. You say all drugs are toxic, should not be taken and are bad for you. Then we have pointed out to you several good drugs that have prevented all kinds of sickness over the decades and then you say some drugs are ok to take...if they work. So what if they work for some people but not others? Does that mean the person who took a drug that worked can say that is a good drug and the person who took the same drug but it did not work can say that is a bad drug. If the FDA approved that "good" drug for the person it worked, does that mean the FDA is ok for that drug? If that drug didn't work for a user, then can you say the FDA is totally corrupt, evil and wants to kill you? Following your logic, that is what you are preaching. THAT is why I am challenging your ludicrous comments.

Their record shows they are not trustworthy. It is all about the money with these jokers. With all the illness they are responsible for I do not know how they can look themselves in the mirror in the morning. Maybe they do not have mirrors in the million dollar homes.


They are far from perfect...most readers here have said that. But give us an alternative to a government body that can replace them and regulate the drugs. Good luck!
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby HarryZ » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:23 pm

HappyPoet wrote:Kronk, I think strong laws that would help stop the 'revolving door' are needed. I should also say I'm biased against the FDA because of the Novantrone I took that stopped my menstrual cycle (think about this for a minute) and gave me a lifetime 10% chance of cancer--it was not an 'informed decision' because I was not told of these adverse side effects. The Novantrone did nothing to help my MS.


Curious as to where you got the label information for Novantrone? As well, I presume you would be aware that there isn't one MS treatment out there that works for everyone so shouldn't be surprised that there was a chance that Novantrone would do nothing for your MS.

As for the honest people who work for the FDA, they've chosen to work for an organization that has a lot of bad press because of a lot of unethical and immoral co-workers, so they should expect comments such as mine--if their skin isn't thick enough, they might want to find another employer.


Please tell me you aren't serious about that comment and that it was made in anger and frustration!!
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby HappyPoet » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:01 pm

Harry, no, it's not how I really feel. The comment was supposed to be a facetious, sarcastic one in which I repeated what had been said to me about needing a thick skin, but I should have used quotes so people would realize this, sorry. I'd prefer if no one ever needed a thick skin, but sadly, that doesn't seem possible in this world.

Back when I took the Novantrone--half my lifetime limit before I quit it when my menstrual cycle stopped--there was talk from my oncologist, who administered the chemo for the hospital-based neurologists, that the chemo might increase the chance of future cancer by a percentage point which was acceptable to me, but 10% was definitely not mentioned and would not have been acceptable.

I've recently read that once the risk was shown to be 10%, the drug was deemed too toxic and became unavailable for pwMS. My oncologist reported my side effects and told me that he'd never prescribe it again for pwMS because a person's reproductive system is too important to risk losing.
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby HarryZ » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:48 pm

HappyPoet wrote:Harry, no, it's not how I really feel. The comment was supposed to be a facetious, sarcastic one in which I repeated what had been said to me about needing a thick skin, but I should have used quotes so people would realize this, sorry. I'd prefer if no one ever needed a thick skin, but sadly, that doesn't seem possible in this world.


Whew...thanks.

Back when I took the Novantrone--half my lifetime limit before I quit it when my menstrual cycle stopped--there was talk from my oncologist, who administered the chemo for the hospital-based neurologists, that the chemo might increase the chance of future cancer by a percentage point which was acceptable to me, but 10% was definitely not mentioned and would not have been acceptable.

I've recently read that once the risk was shown to be 10%, the drug was deemed too toxic and became unavailable for pwMS. My oncologist reported my side effects and told me that he'd never prescribe it again for pwMS because a person's reproductive system is too important to risk losing.


Over the years I have become quite upset at the neuros who have used very powerful cancer drugs to treat MS patients....all based on the premise that MS is an auto-immune disease so if we smash the heck out of a MS patient's immune system it will help their MS!! It wasn't the FDA's fault that your docs decided to use Novantrone on you...it was your docs who chose to try it on you based on an unproven theory on MS. A 10% risk of cancer is 10 times higher than the 1% the oncologist thought it would be so either your case was very unusual or the oncologist didn't do his homework. Yet some MS patients have done ok on Novantonre so I ask the question how does one decide what treatment is tried and what is not?

Using these powerful immune system altering drugs, in my opinion, is a huge risk and one should be told of a worse case scenario before making a decision. It sure seems you were not and paid heavily. Very unfortunate.
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby want2bike » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:40 pm

Maybe Dr. Bergman can explain the problems with drugs. He tells us drugs are toxic. He finds one drug(naltrexone) which may be appropriate while your body is healing. The MS drugs work by weakening the immune system. If you feel destroying your immune system is the way to go do it. You have full approval of the FDA. Dr. Bergman is not approved by the FDA and if you go to see him your insurance will not pay. The Fraud and Deception Agency (FDA) consider him a quack. There is no way to fix the FDA. For some reason you can't understand their business model. They are financed by the drug companies. If you want to stay sick listen to them. If you want to get well listen to Dr. Bergman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGmyUppmt-g
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby HappyPoet » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:46 pm

HarryZ wrote:It wasn't the FDA's fault that your docs decided to use Novantrone on you...it was your docs who chose to try it on you based on an unproven theory on MS. A 10% risk of cancer is 10 times higher than the 1% the oncologist thought it would be so either your case was very unusual or the oncologist didn't do his homework. Yet some MS patients have done ok on Novantonre so I ask the question how does one decide what treatment is tried and what is not?

Using these powerful immune system altering drugs, in my opinion, is a huge risk and one should be told of a worse case scenario before making a decision. It sure seems you were not and paid heavily. Very unfortunate.

Harry, you ask smart questions. My experience with Novantrone, which was ten years ago, was the last time I ever trusted the FDA and neurologists. Now, I do my own homework before I take any drug, not that doing this is a guarantee that problems still won't become apparent later.

The FDA gave approval for Novantrone to be used for several kinds of MS, and from what I can determine, Novantrone is still used for several kinds of MS. I see here http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Treati ... Novantrone that now "permanent sterility" is listed as part of the black box warning required by the FDA. My heart breaks when I think of all the women who were stopped from having children ... yes, unfortunate. Also, now listed in the black box warning are birth defects ... tragic.
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby NHE » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:26 am

centenarian100 wrote:Image


Congratulations on building a time machine :!:
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby HarryZ » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:25 am

want2bike wrote:Maybe Dr. Bergman can explain the problems with drugs. He tells us drugs are toxic. He finds one drug(naltrexone) which may be appropriate while your body is healing. The MS drugs work by weakening the immune system. If you feel destroying your immune system is the way to go do it. You have full approval of the FDA. Dr. Bergman is not approved by the FDA and if you go to see him your insurance will not pay. The Fraud and Deception Agency (FDA) consider him a quack. There is no way to fix the FDA. For some reason you can't understand their business model. They are financed by the drug companies. If you want to stay sick listen to them. If you want to get well listen to Dr. Bergman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGmyUppmt-g


Drugs are chemicals and therefore, by their very nature, toxic. Nothing mysterious about that!

But it's what circumstance and what dosage they are taken that determines the effect on people. And patients DO NOT REACT THE SAME WAY to drugs. One person can benefit while the other does not.

If you want to believe what Dr. Bergman says about drugs then that is your choice. But please don't expect that vast majority of people to share your opinion and please don't call people evil or criminals who don't share your opinion.

Oh, I very well understand the FDA's business model. Don't necessarily agree with a lot of what they say and do but I don't go around calling them liars, cheats and criminals like some people do!!
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby HarryZ » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:33 am

Harry, you ask smart questions. My experience with Novantrone, which was ten years ago, was the last time I ever trusted the FDA and neurologists. Now, I do my own homework before I take any drug, not that doing this is a guarantee that problems still won't become apparent later.


I can remember when I first started reading about Novantrone.... here we go again with another powerful cancer drug that the docs want to try on MS patients! They had done some trials and found some benefit. Some patients' MS got better and appeared to go into complete remission. But like always, until drugs like this get into general use outside of the trial setting, we really don't know what the long term effect may be. Unfortunately, you had to pay a big price and suffer a nasty side effect that they didn't appear to know about. No wonder you have the attitude towards the FDA and those docs that you have. Now you do the research before trying anything but please remember most MS patients do not and rely totally on their doc's advice.

The FDA gave approval for Novantrone to be used for several kinds of MS, and from what I can determine, Novantrone is still used for several kinds of MS. I see here http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Treati ... Novantrone that now "permanent sterility" is listed as part of the black box warning required by the FDA. My heart breaks when I think of all the women who were stopped from having children ... yes, unfortunate. Also, now listed in the black box warning are birth defects ... tragic.


Too bad this info wasn't known BEFORE you tried Novantrone.
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby Kronk » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:21 am

want2bike wrote:Dr. Bergman can explain the problems with drugs... Dr. Bergman is not approved by the FDA and if you go to see him your insurance will not pay


"Doctor" Bergman is a chiropractor, so your insurance will pay if you go to get a spine adjustment.
His opinions are just that, he has no training to make him qualified to make the claims he is. I suppose he has his degree from the university of google/youtube just like you.

The FDA doesn't label people "quacks" that label was bestowed by intelligent people who saw through his shoddy work.

He is trying to steal a piece of the spotlight by riding on people's fears and stating what others have already proven. Naltrexone has been discussed for over a decade Dr. Bahari originally used it for HIV patients.

You need to find some new hero's Wanna... the glory hounds you reference add nothing to the debate.
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby HarryZ » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:39 am

You need to find some new hero's Wanna... the glory hounds you reference add nothing to the debate.


Hey Kronk...I got a good chuckle out of "glory hounds". :-D
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby want2bike » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:00 am

The FDA will always be a criminal organization. They are poisoning our population with the policies they have implement. Hitler didn't put the fluoride in all the water just the water for the Jewish people. The FDA is different. They want to poison everyone. All the sick people we have today is a result of their policies. It is important that people who want to get better understand this. If the continue to believe what the FDA says they will never get better. It is all about the money with those jokers and they are not interested in health. I do not understand how anyone can believe putting poison in the water is not criminal. Fluoride is a proven poison. It doesn't belong in the water.
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby Kronk » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:56 pm

want2bike wrote: Fluoride is a proven poison. It doesn't belong in the water.


Cyanide and Arsenic are poisons and yet you consume them in Apricot seeds... Care to explain the difference?
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby blossom » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:02 pm

NHE wrote:
centenarian100 wrote:Image


Congratulations on building a time machine :!:


with friends like the fda, who needs enemies? whether it's the fda, the monsantoe's, the govt.-the whoever's or whatever's--the ones that are responsible for this and calling the shots. facts are facts, we are a fat sick nation. notice that the poor and struggling middle class, or "truly disabled" are the hardest hit victims. "the most affordable bang for your buck at the grocery store." then they take their medicade or medicare card after being made sick to a dr. that can only supply them with treatments that are mostly made available by suppliers that are not much different in their thinking than the ones that made them sick in the first place. most can't afford alternative care. yes, the president's wife is trying to get kids eating better and that's nice but just because it is green and healthy looking doesn't mean it is. seems they should make it a priority that whether it's an apple or a twinkie a glass of water or a soda it's not laced with all this toxic waste. somebody is responsible for this mess and we can't blame the boogie man.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chemicals-i ... e-you-fat/

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ ... ay-lead-...


everybody that works for the fda or whoever's is not evil--it's a job. but, if the head say the "daddy big bucks" the ones calling the shots, putting big profits personal gain first and don't give a damn about lives and the inviroment getting destroyed--then yes they are the cess pool of humanity.
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Re: Dirty Medicine

Postby newmser » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:48 pm

want2bike wrote: I do not understand how anyone can believe putting poison in the water is not criminal. Fluoride is a proven poison. It doesn't belong in the water.

Well, you're going to have to take that up with Mother Nature (and apprently Adolf Hitler), since fluoride occurs naturally in water.

In the meantime, you'd better stop drinking water entirely. What does the good doctor Bergman have to say about this?
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