Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

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Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby Anonymoose » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:47 pm

Resveratrol Prevents EBV Transformation and Inhibits the Outgrowth of EBV-Immortalized Human B Cells
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0051306

Moreover, the observation that resveratrol efficiently eliminates EBV-infected cells by inhibiting the anti-apoptosis pathway of EBV suggests that resveratrol, in combination with currently available therapies, could enhance the effective treatment of EBV-related cancers, including Hodgkin’s lymphoma, Burkitt’s lymphoma, diffuse large B cell lymphoma, nasopharyngeal carcinoma and chronic diseases such as chronic EBV infection or multiple sclerosis [44].


I took one resveratrol supplement today with 250mg trans resveratrol and naturally some other stuff like quercetin. I feel like I drank too much wine...kind of fuzzy. I think I'll hold off until bedtime tomorrow. Has anyone else tried resveratrol long term? It's supposed to be good for insulin resistance too (lyndacarol?).

I'm still somewhat messed up from valtrex reaction so I probably won't have a great idea about whether its doing any good or bad.
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby lyndacarol » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:02 pm

Through the years there have been many posts on the topic of resveratrol or grapeseed extract. Search ThisIsMS for the topic. As I recall, NHE has put lots of information here.

I had read positive things in respect to insulin resistance; I tried it for a while and saw no personal change; after reading one negative opinion, I discontinued it.

Currently, I am looking at Intestinal Permeability as a source of inflammation, which leads to cytokine (interleukins) production and ultimately to increased insulin levels. I am using diet to effect the change – nothing to report yet.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby NHE » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:51 pm

lyndacarol wrote:Through the years there have been many posts on the topic of resveratrol or grapeseed extract. Search ThisIsMS for the topic. As I recall, NHE has put lots of information here.


I'm taking pterostilbene which is a related molecule. I have a few posts on it, but also take a look at JackD's posts. I've found pterostilbene useful for helping to lower my blood pressure. There was a clinical study by the University of Mississippi that confirmed this. chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic21268.html#p201276 It also helps heal the endothelium. By the way, dark red cherries are also great for lowering blood pressure.
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby Anonymoose » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:29 am

lyndacarol wrote:Through the years there have been many posts on the topic of resveratrol or grapeseed extract. Search ThisIsMS for the topic. As I recall, NHE has put lots of information here.

I had read positive things in respect to insulin resistance; I tried it for a while and saw no personal change; after reading one negative opinion, I discontinued it.

Currently, I am looking at Intestinal Permeability as a source of inflammation, which leads to cytokine (interleukins) production and ultimately to increased insulin levels. I am using diet to effect the change – nothing to report yet.

Thanks lyndacarol. I am comforted by the fact that, on resveratrol, you didn't "feel like you were dying" like you did on valtrex. I was completely shocked when I reacted badly to the valtrex...kicking myself and wishing I had heeded your warning. :P

The 250mg resveratrol is too much for me. I am still fuzzy after taking a dose yesterday afternoon. I'm going to run out for 100mg in a bit and try again tonight. Do you remember what dose you were taking?

I'm curious about your diet change and results. You should tell us about it in a regimen thread. :)

NHE wrote:
lyndacarol wrote:Through the years there have been many posts on the topic of resveratrol or grapeseed extract. Search ThisIsMS for the topic. As I recall, NHE has put lots of information here.


I'm taking pterostilbene which is a related molecule. I have a few posts on it, but also take a look at JackD's posts. I've found pterostilbene useful for helping to lower my blood pressure. There was a clinical study by the University of Mississippi that confirmed this. chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic21268.html#p201276 It also helps heal the endothelium. By the way, dark red cherries are also great for lowering blood pressure.

Thanks NHE,
I had skimmed through the endothelial and mmp9 posts but had seen little related to ebv and didn't know if anyone had been taking it long term. The blood pressure reduction effect of pterostilbene is interesting. I wonder if resveratrol does the same thing...maybe the cause of my fuzziness? It doesn't feel like when my blood pressure got too low on clonidine but its a different compound so.... It could also be the result of one of the amino acids closely resembling tryptophan (turkey sleeping potion). Maybe, as a veggie, I am super sensitive to it.

Did you swap around your probiotics and find any changes or was the pro inflammatory/anti inflammatory puzzle too much for you as it was for me?
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby Anonymoose » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:05 am

NHE wrote:I'm taking pterostilbene which is a related molecule. I have a few posts on it, but also take a look at JackD's posts. I've found pterostilbene useful for helping to lower my blood pressure. There was a clinical study by the University of Mississippi that confirmed this. chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic21268.html#p201276 It also helps heal the endothelium. By the way, dark red cherries are also great for lowering blood pressure.


Even more interesting in light of my positive experience with fenofibrate, pterostilbene is a ppar alpha agonist too. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15853379/

And it seems resveratrol is too... http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4003010802

So, I've accidentally stuck myself back on a ppar a agonist. :rollseyes: Hm. Don't quite know where to go from there. Thanks for the inadvertent heads up. At least resveratrol is natural. Lol
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:10 pm

Anonymoose wrote:Thanks lyndacarol. I am comforted by the fact that, on resveratrol, you didn't "feel like you were dying" like you did on valtrex. I was completely shocked when I reacted badly to the valtrex...kicking myself and wishing I had heeded your warning. :P

The 250mg resveratrol is too much for me. I am still fuzzy after taking a dose yesterday afternoon. I'm going to run out for 100mg in a bit and try again tonight. Do you remember what dose you were taking?

Unfortunately, I have not kept good records. I do not remember the dose of resveratrol I was taking. Sorry.
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby NHE » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:07 am

Anonymoose wrote:Even more interesting in light of my positive experience with fenofibrate, pterostilbene is a ppar alpha agonist too. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15853379/

And it seems resveratrol is too... http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4003010802

So, I've accidentally stuck myself back on a ppar a agonist. :rollseyes: Hm. Don't quite know where to go from there. Thanks for the inadvertent heads up. At least resveratrol is natural. Lol


Hi Anonymoose,
I'm not sure what the total biochemical significance of taking a ppar agonist is other than lowering the LDL/HDL ratio which is a good thing. I'll have to do some searching. Perhaps you can remind me why you were interested in ppar agonists?

By the way, pterostilbene has also been found to be neuroprotective.
natural-approach-f27/topic21267.html#p201230
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby Anonymoose » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:32 am

NHE wrote:
Anonymoose wrote:Even more interesting in light of my positive experience with fenofibrate, pterostilbene is a ppar alpha agonist too. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15853379/

And it seems resveratrol is too... http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4003010802

So, I've accidentally stuck myself back on a ppar a agonist. :rollseyes: Hm. Don't quite know where to go from there. Thanks for the inadvertent heads up. At least resveratrol is natural. Lol


Hi Anonymoose,
I'm not sure what the total biochemical significance of taking a ppar agonist is other than lowering the LDL/HDL ratio which is a good thing. I'll have to do some searching. Perhaps you can remind me why you were interested in ppar agonists?

By the way, pterostilbene has also been found to be neuroprotective.
natural-approach-f27/topic21267.html#p201230


I was taking fenofibrate/ppar-a agonist to reduce ms related cytokines. regimens-f22/topic22078.html Symptom-wise it worked like a dream. But after trying to stop and just take it when estrogen was low (estrogen plus ppar-a agonist = weight gain), I had a massive "flare" which stopped upon restarting fenofibrate. This lead me to try to kill off ebv as I suspect some infection was spreading while I was dumbing down my immune response.

The resveratrol is working in much the same way with my current pseudo flare or mild relapse (brought on by an anti-viral...ebv reactivation?). When it wears off, my symptoms become loud again. Hopefully the rv is fighting ebv in the meantime because I don't want to immunomodulate for the sake of immunomodulating anymore.
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby Anonymoose » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:42 pm

Bad news - good news?

The resveratrol is absolutely messing with my estrogen receptors and has my clockwork cycle in a tizzy. Bad news. I need to find a lower dose, maybe 50 mg.

Good news...could be that if its messing with my estrogen receptors, maybe it's doing what it is supposed to be doing with my ebv. Maybe.

Further bad news. Resveratrol offers no protection against the variety of cold children bring home from camp.
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby centenarian100 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:44 am

Interesting article. Has anyone actually documented EBV immortalized B-cells in patient's with multiple sclerosis?
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby Anonymoose » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:49 am

centenarian100 wrote:Interesting article. Has anyone actually documented EBV immortalized B-cells in patient's with multiple sclerosis?

Yes
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby centenarian100 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:37 pm

Anonymoose wrote:Yes


Source?
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby Anonymoose » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:21 pm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20535037/
One example. Other studies, of course, have found the opposite. Variable findings of latent ebv in ms samples may be explained by http://m.brain.oxfordjournals.org/conte ... 2772.short

Note: The above articles focus on immortalized/latent ebv infected B cells in CNS. It would be rather easy and pointless to do a study to determine the presence of latent ebv in blood/peripheral tissues. 95% of the adult population has immortalized/latent infected B cells. That's just the way the virus works.
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby grandsons4 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:04 pm

To those in this forum who are more scientifically literate than I: I would like help deciphering the following paragraphs which are lifted from an article entitled “The risk of developing multiple sclerosis in individuals seronegative for Epstein-Barr virus: a meta-analysis.” At this point in helping my son devise a treatment plan, I number myself among those who believe that the EBV is the most likely trigger in the majority of MS cases. These are the two paragraphs:
1. Results: The odds ratio (OR) for developing adult MS in EBV seronegatives was 0.18 (95% confidence interval (CI) 0.13–0.26)) and for paediatric MS was 0.18 (95% CI 0.11–0.30). Sub-group analysis on EBV detection method showed that studies which used immunofluoresence generated an OR=0.07 (95% CI 0.03–0.16); for those that used enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) OR=0.33 (95% CI 0.22–0.50) and for studies which used ELISA and immunofluoresence OR=0.00 (95% CI 0–0.43).
2.Conclusion: The sensitivity and specificity of the assay used to measure EBV antibody titres have an influence on the association between MS and EBV. Looking at studies where two independent methods are used and therefore are likely to be the most robust, EBV appears to be present in 100% of MS patients. This has implications for future studies of EBV in MS. MS patients without EBV infection, if they truly exist, should be studied in more detail.
If I read this correctly, overall (using data combined from all three testing methods) odds ratio (apparently the odds of having MS when not having been exposed to EBV contrasted with the odds of having MS having been exposed to EBV) is 0.18 with a high likelihood that the results are accurate. They then break the results down further, and indicate that if only the data gathered when testing for EBV uses both methods of detection (ELISA and immunofluoresence) together, rather than just one or the other, the OR drops to 0.00.
While I understand that correlation is not synonymous with causation, it appears the article very nearly makes the statement, “Of all persons tested, virtually all persons in the subset of subjects diagnosed with MS have been infected with EBV, and in the subset of people who have not been exposed to the Epstein-Barre virus, virtually zero cases of MS have been reported.” I could infer a lot from this statement, if in fact it accurately reflects what the article says.
Have I interpreted the passages correctly?
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Re: Resveratrol combats ebv (study)...rituximab alternative?

Postby CaliReader » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:30 pm

Hi Grandsons4,

I'm hardly the most scientifically literate one here, but I do like to read.

You may find the article at this link explains things more clearly.

http://multiple-sclerosis-research.blog ... of-ms.html
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