Niacin B3

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Re: Niacin B3

Postby CureOrBust » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:58 am

marcopolo wrote:..and occasionally especially when I get a good flush I experience an increase in strength and feeling like I could run a marathon. Unfortunately it doesn't stay and this feeling eventually dwindles after a few hours.
The following occurred to me after I made my last post. The effects of a Niacin flush include
1. Dilation of the capillaries of the skin (hence the flush)
2. A release of Histamine (hence the itchiness)

Now, the second item raised a possible explanation of your symptom relief. There is a history, and a current treatment based on histamine. Maybe you should try Prokarin. I have tried it with no effects. But I don't get the same effects you get from a Niacin flush either.

http://www.tldp.com/issue/11_00/ms.htm
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby pattigaf » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:02 am

Studies are now linking certain forms of MS with dysfunctional amino acid degradation. Specifically, some people don't convert tryptophan into niacin effectively and this can cause neural damage such as seen in MS. Nicain will not hurt you as long as you take the "flushing" kind…nicotinic acid. Some people need large amounts everyday….ie 2- 3 grams. It will make your skin flush, but this side effect will stop after a couple of weeks.
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby brm » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:03 pm

Interesting. Do you perhaps have some links to these studies?

Thanks
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:51 pm

this abstract seems to contradict itself a bit (is endogenous synthesis enough, or not?), but you can see that at least functional conversion of tryptophan to niacin has a role to play in overall niacin nutrition:

Nutritional Aspect of Tryptophan Metabolism (2013)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3729278/

"Mammals, including humans, can synthesize the vitamin nicotinamide from tryptophan in the liver. The resultant nicotinamide is distributed to non-hepatic tissues. We have studied the effects of changes in tryptophan–nicotinamide metabolism on niacin nutritional status. The liver plays a critical role in nicotinamide supply. ... Human studies have shown that 1 mg of nicotinamide is produced from 67 mg of tryptophan intake, and that the conversion ratio of tryptophan to nicotinamide is enhanced from mid to late pregnancy. These findings have contributed to the determination of dietary reference intakes for niacin recommended in the Dietary Reference Intakes for Japanese 2010. Our findings suggest that the conversion of nicotinamide from tryptophan is important in maintaining niacin nutrition. ... Dietary surveys have shown that the amount of nicotinamide biosynthesized from tryptophan is equal to the amount of pre-formed niacin from food intake in Japan, and matches the niacin requirement in humans.1,3,4 Although niacin can be supplied from amino acid tryptophan, nicotinamide biosynthesized from tryptophan is considered to be a byproduct of the kynurenine pathway, and the amount is thought not to be sufficient to meet the requirement. Thus niacin has been recognized as a vitamin."
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:04 pm

interesting interactions:

Oral contraceptives and changes in nutritional requirements. (2013)
"deficiency of vitamin B6 may result in low serotonin levels and/or impaired conversion of tryptophan to niacin."

Interaction of niacin and zinc metabolism in patients with alcoholic pellagra (1989)
"These results suggest that Zn interacts with niacin metabolism in alcoholic patients with pellagra through a probable mediation by vitamin B-6."
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby THX1138 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:22 pm

CureOrBust wrote:
marcopolo wrote:..and occasionally especially when I get a good flush I experience an increase in strength and feeling like I could run a marathon. Unfortunately it doesn't stay and this feeling eventually dwindles after a few hours.
The following occurred to me after I made my last post. The effects of a Niacin flush include
1. Dilation of the capillaries of the skin (hence the flush)
2. A release of Histamine (hence the itchiness)

Now, the second item raised a possible explanation of your symptom relief. There is a history, and a current treatment based on histamine. Maybe you should try Prokarin. I have tried it with no effects. But I don't get the same effects you get from a Niacin flush either.

http://www.tldp.com/issue/11_00/ms.htm


After reading about histamine and the niacin flush, I decided to increase my intake of histamine and see if it affects the flushing. This week I will have brewers yeast to use as a source of histamine. I will report back with my findings.

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Re: Niacin B3

Postby mrbarlow » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:41 am

I bought a bottle of 500mg nicotinamide this lunch timne and took one tablet.

So far Im liking the effect - I'm as bright as a buton and my low level tingling in my feet much reduced.
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby ursula » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:25 am

marcopolo wrote:Also I finding conflicting reports on the safe level or amount to take given the supplements implications
with excess use and the liver. Is 500mg to much or can I increase it?


I take 1000mg niacin extended release. My blood levels are perfect (also liver enzymes).
Should be monitored from time to time.

The last flush has been years ago but as I have no MS-symptoms, I couldn´t realize any improvements.
What I do realize is: 0 relapses since I have been taking niacin.
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby marcopolo » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:40 am

So what about the homocysteine argument forwarded by Annesse at the beginning of this thread.
I did read somewhere that taking other B supplements reduces homocysteine levels?

Also N-Acetyl-Cysteine has been shown to great reduce homocysteine levels.
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby ursula » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:51 am

I am not a pharmacologist.

I am mainly interested in trials like these:

http://mssociety.ca/en/research/medmmo_ ... 060929.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19461950

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2651433/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20554037

but I will check my homocystein levels and see what my neuro says.
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby marcopolo » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:53 pm

I'm curious Ursula when you say you don't have flushes anymore is that because it has become well tolerated?
Also when you say you have no symptoms that's amazing. How long had you been taking it before that happened?
Has your level of disability changed at all?
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby ursula » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:18 am

marcopolo wrote:I'm curious Ursula when you say you don't have flushes anymore is that because it has become well tolerated?
Also when you say you have no symptoms that's amazing. How long had you been taking it before that happened?
Has your level of disability changed at all?


It is normal that the flushes go away after a while. Important is to take niacin with food.

I have been taking it for a couple of years. 1000mg since 3 years (MS for 7 years).
EDSS 0-1

Only very mild vertigo from time to time but that could be also a side effect of niacin. I already have very low blood pressure which gets even lower with niacin (it also lowers colesterol levels).
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby THX1138 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:44 pm

After reading about histamine and the niacin flush, I decided to increase my intake of histamine and see if it affects the flushing. This week I will have brewers yeast to use as a source of histamine. I will report back with my findings.

THX1138


01-08-2014
I have been taking the brewers yeast and can't say I've noticed a difference in the flush strength. I've not worked on this one very seriously, though. YET

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Re: Niacin B3

Postby zjac020 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:53 pm

ursula wrote:
marcopolo wrote:Also I finding conflicting reports on the safe level or amount to take given the supplements implications
with excess use and the liver. Is 500mg to much or can I increase it?


I take 1000mg niacin extended release. My blood levels are perfect (also liver enzymes).
Should be monitored from time to time.

The last flush has been years ago but as I have no MS-symptoms, I couldn´t realize any improvements.
What I do realize is: 0 relapses since I have been taking niacin.


Is it an expensive supplement? Any side effects?

I already take so many supplements and was looking to incorporate NAC as well as l-lysine and two other supplements based on growth factors affecting natural killer cells. I just don't know when to stop...
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby THX1138 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:07 pm

Niacin is very inexpensive.
Regarding the niacin flush, type it into the search box on this site.
People vary widely in their opinions about it. Some wax eloquent as to how unpleasant it is.
Others find it wonderful.
Do be aware of what is coming when taking niacin; it is not like most nutrients where you take them and hope they are doing good on a level which you are unaware of. You will be oh so aware of the niacin flush when it happens, and if you are one the people whose ms symptoms largely go away during the flush, join the ranks and spread the word.

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