Niacin B3

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Re: Niacin B3

Postby jimmylegs » Fri May 16, 2014 3:19 pm

odd, i would have though ffa status would be positively correlated with the strength of the flush.

A volumetric biochemical niacin flush-based index that noninvasively detects fatty acid deficiency in schizophrenia
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/

Relationship between the niacin skin flush response and essential fatty acids in schizophrenia
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 7803001650

Eicosapentaenoic acid in treatment-resistant depression associated with symptom remission, structural brain changes and reduced neuronal phospholipid turnover
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11695 ... jjQa5Th.24
"The n-3 essential fatty acid eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) was added to the conventional antidepressant treatment of a treatment-resistant severely depressed and suicidal male patient with a seven-year history of unremitting depressive symptoms. The niacin skin flush test and cerebral magnetic resonance scanning were carried out at baseline and nine months later. The addition of ethyl-EPA led to a dramatic and sustained clinical improvement in all the symptoms of depression, including a cessation of previously unremitting severe suicidal ideation, within one month. Symptoms of social phobia also improved dramatically. During the nine-month period the volumetric niacin response increased by 30%..."
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby zjac020 » Sat May 17, 2014 12:04 am

way out of my league jimmy...now im completely lost
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby jimmylegs » Sat May 17, 2014 5:45 am

just responding to thx's point 2
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby THX1138 » Sat May 17, 2014 8:38 am

jimmylegs wrote:odd, i would have though ffa status would be positively correlated with the strength of the flush.

A volumetric biochemical niacin flush-based index that noninvasively detects fatty acid deficiency in schizophrenia
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/

Relationship between the niacin skin flush response and essential fatty acids in schizophrenia
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 7803001650

Eicosapentaenoic acid in treatment-resistant depression associated with symptom remission, structural brain changes and reduced neuronal phospholipid turnover
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/11695 ... jjQa5Th.24
"The n-3 essential fatty acid eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) was added to the conventional antidepressant treatment of a treatment-resistant severely depressed and suicidal male patient with a seven-year history of unremitting depressive symptoms. The niacin skin flush test and cerebral magnetic resonance scanning were carried out at baseline and nine months later. The addition of ethyl-EPA led to a dramatic and sustained clinical improvement in all the symptoms of depression, including a cessation of previously unremitting severe suicidal ideation, within one month. Symptoms of social phobia also improved dramatically. During the nine-month period the volumetric niacin response increased by 30%..."


Thanks JL. :-D I just amended that post.
Below is part of what I was talking about:
The circadian rhythm of iMg2+ was found to be considerably more pronounced than that of total Mg and was negatively correlated to changes of free fatty acids.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7578617
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby jimmylegs » Sat May 17, 2014 9:23 am

ok so the inverse correlation is between variation in circadian rhythm, and 'changes' of free fatty acid. i would definitely need to see full text to get a real handle on what that sentence is actually saying!
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby Scott1 » Sat May 17, 2014 2:03 pm

This is a good discussion but if we go back to the original proposition aren't you just trying to improve vasodilation?

I would use L-arginine to dilate the blood vessels and coenzyeme Q10 to improve the quality of the blood cells. That would be part of a bigger protocol which I have set out here - regimens-f22/topic24019.html

The Niacin seems like using a hammer to open screwtop jars to me. It just depends how many jars you have.
The fumurate esters are interesting but if you go back a step you will be looking at arginine so why not start there?

Regards
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby jimmylegs » Sat May 17, 2014 2:43 pm

i personally used niacin early on, to improve blood flow for better oxygen and nutrient delivery. it was a factor in the klenner protocol for ms which did me so much good. for years upon years prior to dx, as a vegan, i would not necessarily have had the best niacin status. so in the early days it made sense. but i switched to omnivore basically a few minutes after getting diagnosed. now i'm pretty sure i have plenty in my system. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
i have read that the concerns over supplemental niacin's potential damage to the liver are exaggerated, but personally, it's still not something i would bother taking as a long term thing.
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby nbritton » Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:22 pm

marcopolo wrote:From what I have read b6 and b12 metabolize homocystine along with folic acid. Not prepared to give up my 'high' albeit brief
but you got to ask yourself why is that. Again it goes along way to support the cardio vascular nature of the disease.

Someday soon someone's going to wake up and the lights going to go on and we'll all be better off because of it.


I'm betting the reason why niacin increases homocysteine is that it slows down the conversion of homocysteine into methionine via MTRR. An alternate conversation process is via BHMT, so taking betaine (A/K/A trimethylglycine or TMG) should increase the conversion rate and ultimately reduce homocysteine. Also increasing your intake of methylfolate (folate) and/or methylcobalamin (B12) should also reduce homocysteine levels. Pyridoxine (B6) can also reduce homocysteine by converting it into cystathionine via CBS.

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Re: Niacin B3

Postby David1949 » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:57 pm

For the benefit of anyone planning to try Niacin I should point out that the "flush" feels like your skin is on fire. So I would suggest starting with a low dose and gradually working up. Also be ready to jump into a cold shower if you do happen to O.D.
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby CureOrBust » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:07 pm

David1949 wrote:For the benefit of anyone planning to try Niacin I should point out that the "flush" feels like your skin is on fire. So I would suggest starting with a low dose and gradually working up. Also be ready to jump into a cold shower if you do happen to O.D.
Apart from feeling like its "on fire" you will also get an itch that will drive you crazy! I have never tried a cold shower, but I have noticed in winter, after the flush has finished, if I have a hot/warm shower, the itch goes into overdrive. One thing I have done often in the past which appears to lower the intensity of the flushing, is making sure I am fully covered/rugged up BEFORE and during the dose. Sounds counter-intuitive, but it appears to help me.
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby THX1138 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:53 pm

It would be great to hear of other people's improvements with the niacin flush.
So what's yours :?:

THX1138 wrote:Below are a few old posts of mine:


Niacin has lead me on a path to increase my blood flow.

I have found that when I get a STRONG niacin flush, my walking improves greatly (a night and day difference.)
By a "STRONG niacin flush" I mean one that goes all the way down to my toes. Weaker flushes are of little help.

My vision improves as well - more clarity and much better color saturation.

Too bad the niacin flush only lasts less than half an hour. So I am working on other ways to dilate my blood vessels. Both Magnesium and Vinpocetine are vasodilators and these are proving helpful.

If you think your magnesium level is fine because a doctor gave you a test that came out "normal" check this out:
The underestimated problem of using serum magnesium measurements to exclude magnesium deficiency in adults; a health warning is needed for "normal" results.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=a+warning+to+clinicians+magnesium

Good Luck

THX1138

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today I did a good magnesium oil treatment and about an hour later I drank a vitamin B3 (niacin) drink (my own recipe).

I drank it. In about 15 minutes...
The niacin flush was coming on strong; my skin was red, and I was amazingly full of energy.
Then I went for a walk. Right away it was obvious that the flush was really working.
My legs felt light and swung freely instead of the tight bound up feeling.
I was walking fairly well and it was easy to walk much faster than usual.

In total, I walked about 2 blocks (way farther than I can normally walk).

After about the first block, the niacin flush started to fade, and so did I. I should have started the walk earlier on in the flush, which lasted about 20 minutes. My condition was returning to normal. I was starting to think I might not make it home without falling. I made it though.


From then on, I was back to my usual low energy, stiff-walking self. It sure was reassuring, though, to see that I was able to walk well for at least a while. It had been several months since the last time my walking had transformed so much from the niacin flush.

So I continue to try to fix this obvious blood flow problem I have. Reconsideration October 2017: Sometimes I wonder if blood flow is really the issue or if it's something else. But I'm leaning toward the blood flow idea.


Anyone else ever have a similar experience??

Thanks,
THX1138


I have made a distinction about how the niacin flush works with me: I've noticed that the flush (warmth) starts on my head and I feel a little bit of tingles there. And it starts moving down my body, finally ending up at my feet or toes. My head goes from feeling warm to feeling at least (relatively) cool and clear, with apparently a total absence of the all-too-frequent feeling of mild warmth and fullness. While my head is warm I don't notice much improvement in my ms symptoms. When the flush gets down to my legs or feet, that's when I noticed the walking improvement and clear, lively (sometimes somewhat hyper) thinking; that's when I feel wonderfully alive and my senses seem so much more crisp and detailed.

It would be great to hear of other people's improvements with the niacin flush.
So what's yours :?:
Last edited by THX1138 on Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:50 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby ElliotB » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:41 am

THX1138, how much Niacin are you taking and how often do you take it?
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby THX1138 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:00 am

For the past few years I've taken niacin less than once a month. But I've started doing it more often recently, but still less than once a week.. When I do take niacin, I take 500 mg of standard (Nicotinic Acid) niacin, preferably on an empty stomach. In the walking experience that I mentioned above, I took 500 mg of niacin (Nicotinic Acid) and mixed with liquid. I opened a 500 mg capsule of standard niacin (Nicotinic Acid) and mixed this with juice. I also mix an equal amount of vitamin C with the niacin drink because a nutritionally oriented nurse told me that that is liver protective. I find that if I drink a liquid niacin mixture, the flush comes on much sooner (in less than 10 minutes.

Keep in mind that some people find the niacin flush experience very unpleasant. You can read about that above. For me and many others, the experience is, at worst, a bit annoying. While some say the niacin flush makes their skin feel like it's on fire, for me, my skin just gets warm and pink/red.

I find, if I take niacin daily, the flush gets weaker after a few days. From what I've read and experienced, it's not possible to have daily, repeated strong niacin flushes without taking a break from the niacin for a few days.
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby THX1138 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:25 am

I'm starting a new topic for this discussion because the name doesn't give it due justice.

The name of the new topic is: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/post249882.html#p249882
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Re: Niacin B3

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:57 pm

or you just ask someone with magical powers to edit the subject of the op..
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
User avatar
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