breakthrough?

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breakthrough?

Postby jerrygallow » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:54 pm

I don't know if someone else posted this or not. A new discovery could potentially link MS to a toxin produced by gut bacteria. If so, it would be an elegant solution with treatment hope.

I have theorized for several years now that MS starts in the digestion. I think that's why various diets work (they change the gut bacteria). With billions of little critters down there, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. Tysabri could be effective because it stops migration of immune cells from the digestion track. BG12 could also work because of it's role on the digestion system. Food for thought.

http://americannewsreport.com/nationalp ... 22102.html
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Re: breakthrough?

Postby Leonard » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:29 pm

the report talks about the acute MS disease process.

for this 21 year old woman, that acute attack is most likely as she is below mid-age.
however, I think that the acute relapse is much more an issue of receptor blocking by bacteria such as Cpn or virus such as EBV (but would not seem to involve real biological change, the immune system just removes the infectious agent and then we see remittance).

I think the bacteria is a good candidate for explaining the progressive phase of MS, the slow degeneration of myelin and axons.
toxins are released, the OPC are affected and don't do their work anymore, the myelin and axons slowly disintegrate.
the time constant of that biological process is many months, if not years, not acute.
the toxin hypothesis fits neatly here!

if there are people reading here who have contact with the institute that did this research, please tell them because the understanding of fundamentally different underlying mechanisms causing acute and progressive/degenerative MS may greatly help them to advance their thinking.

incidently, for this 21 year old woman, the acute relapse is a receptor blockage -I am sure- where the type of infectious agent may have some relation with Clostridium Perfringens but may also be related to others that occured simultaneously.
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Re: breakthrough?

Postby jerrygallow » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:01 am

I don't know much about biology, so I don't follow your post. What is a receptor blocker?

I read that when they inject this toxin into the blood stream of animals, it causes symptoms within hours. Some of the animals develop the plaques that we see in MS. So maybe the theory would go, as the bacteria proliferate to a critical mass number, the stream of toxin production increases. At first, the degeneration on the nerves is slow, which would give the impression of discreet attacks and remission. over time, the process is more constant. Or maybe something in the diet triggers them to produce more toxins. Ironically, some offending food that kills them or causes toxin production, could be "good" for you and at the same time give you a relapse? Who knows. I hope they follow up on this, because it makes sense.
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Re: breakthrough?

Postby Zac » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:27 pm

Hi,
What kind of toxins are you talking about ?
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Re: breakthrough?

Postby Leonard » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:56 am

jerrygallow,

you may be right that it starts slowly..
But I think the acute relapse is more an issue of receptor blocking by Cpn or EBV.
all this is possible because BBB broke as result of many years of ccsvi.
In my case I recovered four times taking antibiotics, without knowing I had MS.
I was diagnosed only at 47, after mid age.
I see the E-toxin hypothesis as a plausible candidate for the progressive form.
The permeable gut which absorbs 35 k Da E-toxin only starts as of mid-age...



Zac,

please look at the last two postings on general-discussion-f1/topic15188.html
the first posting on pg 1 is my best assessment of what is MS.
the toxin is Epsilon protoxin, produced by an unbalanced gut micro-biome, and more in particular by Clostridium Perfringens type B bacteria.
and can leak into the circulation because as of mid age the gut lining breaks (e.g. due to food intolerance ..)
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