Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Scott1 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:35 pm

Hi Anonymoose,

If the neurological symptoms are gone but you are now tired it would fit with my way of thinking to draw the following conclusion-
The Rituxan had knocked out the B cells which means the EBV can't persist. They are no longer there is sufficient numbers to make an excess of Superoxide. Without Superoxide you are making less Peroxynitrite. All goods news.
However, Peroxynitrite disables Glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate permanently so you will still be short of phosphate to drive the sodium potassium pump. Take Q10 to overcome that. The Peroxynitrite would also have been oxidising tetrahydrobiopterin which is needed to make NO. You probably have an endothelial dysfunction still going on . Take L-Arginine for that. The tight junctions in the endothelium need retinoic acid. Take carrot juice for that.
I'd back off on the other supplements because the lack of B cells and the drop in Superoxide is probably confounding any readings. Jimmy is right about Magnesium and Zinc but I'd step back a little for now. You have given yourself a big working over with Rituxan.
I'd still check your non essential amino acid levels. You make them yourself and seeing where they sit will be a good guide to whats going on.

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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:32 pm

Thanks jimmy and scott1.

Sorry scott1. But I am not going to take any supplement until I know what's going on...especially not coq10 to which I react negatively! Are you mad?! Lol

My current theory is I've gotten my vitamin d levels up too high, induced hypercalcemia which overwhelmed my kidneys and made it so they were unable to handle the mag. Burning sensation is a symptom of hypermagnesemia. My kidney zone was a bit sore yesterday afternoon through evening which seems to support this idea.

Jimmy, did the sore kidneys just go away after quitting calcium? Did you ever have them checked for damage? I wonder why we have issues with calcium. Weird.
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:08 pm

hey anon :) the back pain always just sort of resolved when I backed off on calcium.

I never had my kidneys checked specifically and it was just an assumption of mine that the kidneys were the source of the ache.

I have never had a creatinine level come back looking bad (although as I understand it, by the time creatinine level does register an issue, your kidneys are largely toast anyway)

you're still getting bloodwork done on Monday, yes?
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:55 pm

jimmylegs wrote:you're still getting bloodwork done on Monday, yes?

Absolutely! This is freaking me out a bit.
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Scott1 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:13 pm

There must be something else going on.

Q10 shouldn't cause a problem on it's own. It's the most common substance in your body hence its other name, Ubiquitone.
I'm with JL. Some of your reactions are not what I assume should happen.
As background, I never take D3. I'm suspicious of it as I worry it's just a mask. Since I have elevated my RXR using carrot juice for 9 cis retinoic acid my Vit D levels have improved.Vit D is just fashionable at the moment because someone noted it was obviously important but I think it is overemphasised. If D3 doesn't agree with you why do take that but not try Q10?

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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby want2bike » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:30 am

The data shows anyone with MS should not be doing gluten or dairy. Vitamin D is critical for anyone with MS. Young healthy people in the tropics have a level between 80-100 ng/ml. You could have a problem if you are taking a lot of supplements because there are other things in the supplements which are not good for the body. Most likely many of your supplements have magnesium stearate in them which is a hydrogenated oil. Hydrogenated oils(trans fats) are not good for anyone with MS. I get my supplements from nutrigold because they do not use GMO or harsh chemicals. Start juicing and you will get all the vitamins and minerals from nature. Your body is very smart and will pick out what it needs from the juice.

http://www.common-sense-health.com/dair ... erosis.htm

http://www.naturalnews.com/027345_Vitam ... e_sun.html

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/magnesiu ... fects.html

http://nutrigold.com/
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:44 am

I have said this before.. my d3 absorption skyrocketed when I corrected underlying zinc deficiency. I have definitely had my level end up well above the range I felt comfortable with.. I look forward to seeing your test results, anon! :)
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Scott1 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:33 pm

Hi,

That back/kidney pain may be the adrenals not the kidney. Not all medical people would agree but we know what a good job they do. see

https://eaware.org/adrenal-glands/

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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:44 am

Want2bike,
I'm thinking I might be getting my nutrients from food for a while. Thanks for your input. :)

Scott1,
I've had some indications of renal issues that are thankfully slowly improving...reduced urine output and puffy eyes (never get them unless I bawl my eyes out all night). So, I am pretty sure it's the kidneys not the adrenals.

Jimmy,
I'm using your technique and ordering some additional labs online without bugging my neuro...getting 1,25OH and a renal panel too. If things look ugly, I'll have to find a new doc to manage it. Bleh. More doctors. :(
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:17 am

ok sounds good anon :) hope everything goes smoothly. I wish we had an online test provider here. we almost did, too much red tape though.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:43 pm

Renal and calcitriol lab results just came in...very interesting... (sorry it didn't paste well)

Renal Panel (10)
Glucose, Serum 90 mg/dL 65 - 99 01
BUN 5 Low mg/dL 6- 24 01
Creatinine, Serum 0.67 mg/dL 0.57 - 1.00 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 108 mL/min/1.73 >59
eGFR If Africn Am 125 mL/min/1.73 >59
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 7 Low 9 - 23
Sodium, Serum 137 mmol/L 134 - 144 01
Potassium, Serum 4.4 mmol/L 3.5 - 5.2 01
Chloride, Serum 102 mmol/L 97 - 108 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 23 mmol/L 19 - 28 01
Calcium, Serum 9.6 mg/dL 8.7 - 10.2 01
Phosphorus, Serum 3.1 mg/dL 2.5 - 4.5 01
Albumin, Serum 4.1 g/dL 3.5 - 5.5 01

Calcitriol(1,25 di-OH Vit D) 85.9 High pg/mL 10.0 - 75.0 02

So...calcitriol high as I suspected. Haven't a clue as to what the rest means...jimmy, any thoughts? :P Still waiting on other lab results. Seems doctors slow them down :roll: ...yet another reason just to order them online.
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:50 pm

hmm interesting. I see your calcium looks all right. do you have a 25(OH)vitD3 result pending?

I don't usually bother with 1,25(OH)2vitD3 but it's good to know, esp if high. no luck running a preliminary search for elevated calcitriol with normal calcium. will take a bit more time than I have available this week!

personally I have only had 1,25(OH)2vitD3 tested a couple times. once by mistake early on (it was 'normal') and once after I tried out some medication that made me suspicious (yep, it was high -as far as my lab's ref range was concerned-.. went up to 176pmol/L.. divide that by 2.496 to get roughly 70pg/mL )

re low bun & bun-cr, I imagine you've already done similar searches for yourself:

http://www.mercola.com/forms/mpt.htm
BUN (Blood Urea Nitrogen): BUN is a waste product derived from protein breakdown in the liver. Increases can be caused by excessive protein intake, kidney damage, certain drugs, low fluid intake, intestinal bleeding, exercise, heart failure or decreased digestive enzyme production by the pancreas. Decreased levels are most commonly due to inadequate protein intake, malabsorption, or liver damage.

http://answers.webmd.com/answers/119839 ... nine-ratio

for the bun and bun-cr findings, i'd work on the most likely scenarios first.. how is your dietary protein?
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:09 pm

Yep, I have normal d3 pending.

I did look up the BUN stuff (you know me so well...lol). Dietary protein has been extremely low in recent days due to appetite issues and the flu. it's been relatively low since the beginning of October. I'd also been drinking a ton of water trying to flush my kidneys. According to previous test results, my normal BUN is 11...so, it is pretty off for me. I'll probably do a full metabollic panel in 3 months but I'm not too worried about it now because I'm getting better. :) "They" say BUN alone isn't a good indication of liver function. I'm going to take that and run for now. And my kidneys aren't toast! Yay!!

My previous calcium results came back around 9.0 so I think the 9.6 is high for me. It's possible that it has worked it's way down from sky-high...kidneys are supposed to get rid of that stuff afterall. :P The calcitriol was probably higher when I was hurting too...doesn't it have a 3 day or 3 hour half life while d3 hangs around longer? Who knows? We still need those in-home insta-labs. One can only dream.

I was wondering if you had studied up on the electrolyte ratios. Things might be in range but if the ratios are off, does that cause problems??

Looking at my healthvault now...still doesn't show other lab results. I'm dying to know the d3!
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:47 am

heya :) so which results are we waiting for all in all now?

no kidding about doc processes slowing things down, huh. for the private tests you ordered, the calcitriol and renal panel - what was your actual turnaround time? eg what day did you order, did you receive the requisition on the spot, how soon after did you get blood drawn, and how long from the day you had blood taken until the results came through?

i'm interested in your d3 result too.. but especially the zinc. *esp* since you mentioned appetite issues and the flu.

defs good news re the kidneys!

I have not studied up on the main electrolytes too much really. I just know that average joe gets WAY too much sodium for the amount of potassium consumed. processed foods generally have an Na:K ratio of 5:1 but dietary ratio should be 1:2. and I have been reading up on the consequences of too much phosphorus, vs magnesium.

I don't know too much about optimal serum ranges for Na, K, Ca or P. yet ;)

coffee time's over, I should be working :S ttfn!
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info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Jimmylegs...too much vitamin d = ouch?

Postby Anonymoose » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:54 pm

Heya yourself :P

My doc called and left a few of the numbers for me. Everything else is "normal." I'll have to wait for the results to post to my healthvault. So, here's what I have for now.

d3 34 norm 30-??
iron 23 norm 35-155
ferritin 12 norm 15-150

I supplemented for less than a week (and washed out for 1 week) to get that d3. Previously, after about 3 months supplementing on CAP, I had only made it up to 27.5. So, I think if I continue d3 supplements (with calcium now?? skeered of that!), I'll need to go at a lower rate. But I dunno. What a mess! Oh whatever shall I do, Jimmy?!

As for the low iron, I think rituxan can do that. Do I have to take iron now too? Think I could get away with just eating a lot of beans and spinach? OMG! One square of dark chocolate has 5mg!! How many of those do I need to eat?! I'm in!
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