This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

[jimmylegs]

just having a related chat on another thread anon, thought you might find this link interesting
http://drlwilson.com/ARTICLES/ANEMIA.htm

[Anonymoose]

nice detective work definitely could be a copper issue - it's something I like to measure when I do other bloodwork. when was your last copper test anon, and what was the result?

Last copper test was in December. Copper 107 Zinc 116. Test a couple weeks ago said zinc 135...bizarre, I thought it would go down with all that iron supplementation.

I'm torn about supplementing copper without knowing where it is now. But I'm going with taking it in conservative doses for a bit to see if it continues to help and will retest in a couple weeks (zinc, copper, iron, ferritin).

I'm not working on mag or d right now because I don't want to complicate things. My ferritin needs to get up there!! (note: ferritin suddenly becomes vitally important when a female loses half her hair. Good thing I had really thick hair before! If I hadn't, I'd be as bald as a smiley! )

Thanks for the anemia link...I've been reading all sorts of crazy stuff about iron and copper and thyroid blah blah blah. The only thing I am certain of regarding any of it is I'm a flippin' mess! But I feel pretty good anyway. Lol

[jimmylegs]

yea back then copper 107 looked pretty decent, and zinc looked good too. I shouldn't have thought copper deficit would be affecting iron absorption with those levels.

definitely curious what the picture is now. a retest in a couple weeks sounds great hopefully will clear up some of the confusion. the potential drug-nutrient interactions complicate things.

very good idea to hold off on mag and d until you have other stuff sorted. np re the link glad you're feeling ok at least. at least somewhat better than when all this started I hope!

[Anonymoose]

yea back then copper 107 looked pretty decent, and zinc looked good too. I shouldn't have thought copper deficit would be affecting iron absorption with those levels.

definitely curious what the picture is now. a retest in a couple weeks sounds great hopefully will clear up some of the confusion. the potential drug-nutrient interactions complicate things.

very good idea to hold off on mag and d until you have other stuff sorted. np re the link glad you're feeling ok at least. at least somewhat better than when all this started I hope!

Thanks. I feel loads better!! I am very close to normal. I don't really feel the iron/ferritin deficiency that much. I've been busy starting to get the house back to my standard of clean and organization. I could only really whine about complaining muscles.

Imagine how much more of a mess I'd be if you hadn't been feeding me the koolaid for the past year and a half(??). Scary!!

[jimmylegs]

a yr and a half wow, that is a LOT of koolaid!

[Anonymoose]

This is so insane!! I had bloodwork done again Monday.

Copper low @ 71ug/dl range 72-166
Zinc lowish @ 87ug/dl (what a huge drop!!) range 56-134
Ferritin up from 9 to 23ng/dl but still lowish range 15-150
Tibc 238 low range 250-450
Iron 32ug/dl low range 35-155
Iron saturation low @ 13% range 15-55

Things swing around too quickly for me. Ugh.

So, Jimmylegs, I'm thinking 15mg zinc w/1mg copper, 3mg copper, 25mg iron, 4000iu d3 with 400mg mag, a multi to cover b's and other trace minerals (with a little zinc and copper and d), another 200mg mag if I can fit it in and flaxseed and algae dhea or is it dha?? Sound reasonable?

[jimmylegs]

OUCH that copper needs to go back up to 115 and the zinc to 120 :S
glad the ferritin's a bit higher. a ways to go though!
plan sounds good. take vit C when you take iron though. and a multi is always a good plan.
try to make certain you take some mag at the same time as the d3, and some at a separate time.

[Anonymoose]

Thanks, jimmy!

[jimmylegs]

np!

[jimmylegs]

hey anon at some point let's talk in a little more detail about timing of your supplement regimen over the course of the day. to optimize absorption and minimize conflict.

[Anonymoose]

Schedule? What's that?? Lol

It's all very haphazard now because I'm tweaking things based on how I feel. I think my copper might already be up there so I'm dropping the 3mg copper today (I will still get around 2mg from zinc combo and multi). I added kelp for iodine too. I've been spreading everything out by an hour or two but will consolidate some today.

Today will probably go
3am iron
6am valtrex
8am breakfast with multi, kelp, dha/epa, flaxseed oil
12pm lunch with zinc combo
3pm 200mg mag with d
6pm iron and juice (won't do the 3am again! And will swap with 9pm mag if any dairy or major phytates/oxalates in dinner)
9pm 400mg mag

Of course, I'll dork around with the schedule if I feel some psychic urge that I need to take something at a random time.

Anything I should change around there? I have been waking up at 2:34am every night for a couple of weeks. I don't know if that's a vitamin thing or if I just have to have a good think in the middle of the night these days.

[jimmylegs]

okee looks pretty good so far.

re timing and sleep wake cycles, research can tell you when levels tend to be highest, but I am not necessarily sure how to interpret that in terms of specific dose timing. probably smart to go by feel in the absence of info on times from dose to highest serum concentration (I know the lag for D3 but haven't researched others - if you feel motivated, go for it and post me some research links ;D )

for example, b12 is higher in the evening and lower in the morning. I've had folks complain of wakefulness overnight, then we find out they were taking thousands of mcgs of b12 in the morning, and it resolves when they spread it out and move it later. so if you ever find yourself high dosing b12 consider doing it in the afternoon or evening.
probably not an issue with the amt of b12 in a multi though.

from what I recall of the research, zinc levels are generally highest in the morning (might explain something for the boys) so lunch time pills might be throwing your rhythm off a bit.

midday d3 very logical, good to have that mag in there

evening iron and mag look fine as well.

one last thing re midnight wakefulness.. how are you doing for physical exercise? got enough energy for cardio or anything like that?

[Anonymoose]

Cardio? Uh... Lol I'm more of a physical laborer/play type of girl than an exercise for the sake of exercise girl. This week I've been a bit sleepy so not a lot of intense activity going on. I'm starting to come out of it so will get back to work/play soon. I assume your cardio concern is iron related??

I think the sleep thing is likely a result of my thinky nature. I've been dream thinking and wake up and start processing the dream thoughts...and as a result wind up taking iron and drinking juice at ungodly hours. Weird, I know.

I now want to do a poll regarding morning wood and zinc levels. Thanks for that. @ myself

[jimmylegs]

oh re cardio, I was just wondering if you need more physical exertion to help get a good night's sleep that's all. maybe you'll sleep better once you're back on track with physical work and play. so ya I guess there's an iron link, since once the iron is back on track you'll probably be able to up the action etc etc etc.

lol if you liked that bit about zinc and circadian rhythm, you'll probably get a kick out of this too:
natural-approach-f27/topic18579.html#p40033

[Anonymoose]

Re: iron and exercise I was thinking more along these lines...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20175428/

And OMG, Jimmylegs! Don't show me links like that last. I'm going to be chasing my poor son around with zinc now for fear that he'll go insane. Ay yi yi!! As if being a teenager isn't awkward enough...