Extrememly promising

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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby NHE » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:19 am

danirs wrote:Hello to all,

please read very carefully the following material:

http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets ... ridium.pdf

Please share opinions.

Hi Danirs,
Please see the following post in the Forums FAQ thread to understand why your link doesn't work.
site-support-f2/topic5284-15.html#p197371
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby danirs » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:53 am

NHE wrote:
danirs wrote:Hello to all,

please read very carefully the following material:

http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets ... ridium.pdf

Please share opinions.

Hi Danirs,
Please see the following post in the Forums FAQ thread to understand why your link doesn't work.
site-support-f2/topic5284-15.html#p197371


Hello NHE and sorry for the mistake. Here is the complete link:
https://www.google.bg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 3hW7G9bU6g
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby NHE » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:15 am

danirs wrote:Hello NHE and sorry for the mistake. Here is the complete link:
https://www.google.bg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 3hW7G9bU6g


Bypassing google...

http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets ... ridium.pdf
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby DrGeoff » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:20 pm

Oh dear, so I am accused of misunderstanding the facts of the study.
A URL to the actual paper would have helped (yes, I do know it was published in PLoS ONE).
But, to quote from the official Weil-Cornell Press Release:
"While it is clear that new MS disease activity requires an environmental trigger, the identity of this trigger has eluded the MS scientific community for decades," Dr. Vartanian says. "Work is underway to test our hypothesis that the environmental trigger for MS lays within the microbiome, the ecosystem of bacteria that populates the gastrointestinal tract and other body habitats of MS patients."

Which suggests that the researchers subscribe to the multi-component theory
I did wonder whether their discovery came under the heading of Environmental or Situational, and the quote makes it quite clear that they see it as the first. So they still have to nail down one of the other two factors before this becomes promising, let alone "extremely promising".

I also note:
The study describes discovery of C. perfringens type B in a 21-year-old woman who was experiencing a flare-up of her MS.

and call to mind the Latin tag Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
This may prove to be a critical discovery, or it may just be coincdence - that is what research is all about. Further, this may support the work of Borody (2009), but that in turn rests on the work of Gower-Rousseau et al (2003). So some of the hints have been there for ten years. The relationship remains to be demonstrated, but the Weill-Cornell discovery may have moved things on by two steps rather than just one.

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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby cervocuit » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:32 am

Dr Geoff

If MS requires 3 component, why not just remove one, the easiest.
MS has exponentially increased in recent times, so what can we do with our genes ?

Some smokers get lung cancer, some don’t. There is probably a genetic suceptiptibilty as a cause, as well as other environmental factors, that would explain at a microscopic level, what happen in smokers body. That would help developping drugs to counteract the process. But who cares, apart drug companies ? Let just quit smoking if you want to dramatically decrease your risk of getting lung cancer.

It is not as much obvious for MS, and the environmental factor is probably not this particular bacteria if it is a very common one, but our diet, antibiotics, lack of breast milk in infant, of vit. D, of exercice…. that makes a depleted microbiome which allows the bad ones to find a home in us without being annoyed. But it’s still good to know that, because it encourage research into gut microbiome in MS.
No matter if it is this particular organism that release a toxin, a depletion of good ones that makes a funky immune system, or that let the bad ones takes place, or that makes irritatation of the bowel which become leaky and let passes antigens.

For the situationnal component (if you mean stress), i think it is just a trigger for the expression of the dysbiosys between us and our microbes. Again, let fix the environment, and bad situations won’t do no harm.

What is Gowel-Rousseau (2003) ?
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby DrGeoff » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:41 pm

@cervocuit
You ask about Gower-Rousseau (2003)
I am surprised that you even need to ask, since you provided the reference - it is one of the references given by Borody at the end of the abdtract you linked to. Actually, Gower-Rousseau has been working in the area of the intestinal microbiota dysbiosis for several years

Your citing lung cancer is hardly relevant. Yes, a genetic component is certainly a probable candidate, but having the genetic propensity does not mean that you will get cancer. Smoking does not mean that you will get cancer. The whole point of the 3-component theory is that there are 3 two-way and one three-way interactions and nailing down one factor is not really a lot of use until the second factor can be determined. This does mean that you need a truck-load of data, and the capability of analysing it.
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby cervocuit » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:37 am

Oh ok, i haven’t noticed the reference since it was about Myasthenia Gravis ( :?: ).

A better example of what i meant, because it's a chronic desease :
Celiac desease has also a genetic and environmental component. If we didn’t know what these factors are, and a group of researchers would have found that gluten is a major environmental factor, it would be very promising. Indeed, gluten free diet helps celiacs a lot.
What genetics could bring ? Apart knowing who is at risk.
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby danirs » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:43 am

http://www.caltech.edu/content/bugs-bra ... -sclerosis

Please also check this website. Even at the bottom there is an email address to which you can address your questions.

If anyone wants, he can contact them and ask how far did they went in this research about the gut.

As i see they have good results with Autism, using probiotics.

Regards
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby leonardo » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:13 pm

wrote to Clostridum study author about the "probiotic cocktail", waiting for response...
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby danirs » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:46 pm

leonardo wrote:wrote to Clostridum study author about the "probiotic cocktail", waiting for response...


Hey, glad that you wrote them.

I hope they will answer soon.


Keep us updated.

Cheers
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