Extrememly promising

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Extrememly promising

Postby maxwedge » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:47 am

I am fortunate enough not to have MS but I ran across this in my diabetes issues. http://www.thealmagest.com/toxin-emitti ... igger/4500
I am of the opinion and have been for some time that cause of many chronic diseases will be found in our gut mircrobiome, with cures not far behind.
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby maxwedge » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:15 am

A little background information. The microorganisms that reside in our gut (intestines) are referred to as the (gut microbiome, microbiota or gut flora). There are 100 trillion microorganisms residing in our gut and about 1,000 different species of bacteria. There are 10 times the number of microorganisms in our gut as there are cells in our bodies. With the advancement in genomic sequencing, scientists are able to see how peoples gut floras differ from others. Scientists now know our gut microbiome funtions as an organ either helping or hurting its host. They are now making connections between many chronic diseases and the gut flora such as diabetes, arthritis, autism, depression/anxiety (yes the gut flora can effect brain function) and now it appears MS. I expect some remarkable developments to be on the horizon that will help us all and cure, yes cure, many of these chronic conditions. Stay tuned and be hopeful.
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby leonardo » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:43 am

this study was already posted here 5 times
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby THX1138 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:22 pm

leonardo, what do you think of the study?
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby DrGeoff » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:28 pm

If you subscribe to the 3-component view of acquisition of many physical and psychological disorders, then this will not really be "extremely promising" until the researchers can identify the other two factors.
The 3-component view holds that genetic, environmental and situational factors all have to be aligned before the disorder is acquired.
Research is already under way to look at known areas of high MS incidence as compared to the genetic origin of those who had acquired MS, and I personally would get excited about the Cornell work when they can show a link to either one of the other two factors (if they can decide whether their discovery comes under the heading of environmental or situational.
I tend to get a touch suspicious when a "Gosh, gee whiz" piece of research is released, and speculate that tenure renewal time could be approaching.
There was a paper published last year (by an anthropologist) that claimed that MS was not an auto-immune problem, and the author plugged it in any forum that could be found. It was not a good piece of work by several standards, and the author was told that quite clearly by someone with a qualification in neuroscience. But, hey, who cares, it's a (much needed) publication.

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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby maxwedge » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:06 am

"If you subscribe to the 3-component view of acquisition of many physical and psychological disorders, then this will not really be "extremely promising"..." I don't, so it still is.
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby jerrygallow » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:30 pm

This view of genetics is outdated. Gene expression can be turned off. And what is the difference between situational and environmental
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby DrGeoff » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:08 am

The 3-component view is certainly not outdated - in fact a subset of it is often used to explain how gene expression in moderated (not "turned off" as gerrygallow puts it).
So let me try to put this in a way that even a Cornell-Weill publicist can understand:

The genetic component requires that there is something in an individual's DNA that reacts to a certain stimulus. So, the reported (UK MS Society, this week) finding in NY that there are some small differences in the DNA of those of us who contract MS does lead to one possible component.

The difference between Environmental and Situational is - I would have thought - self-evident. However, to be explicit, Environmental is usually considered to be long term, where Situational is transitory and short term. As an example, Fred Smith has a genetic predisposition to cancer. He lives in the greater Los Angeles area. Those are the Genetic and Environmental components. It is only when Fred drives up to visit a cousin in Los Banos and gets under the flightpath of a crop-sprayer in the Central Valley that a few lung-fulls of herbicide do what 30 years in LA have not done. The Situational component has been satisfied and Fred gets cancer.

In other words: when the Cornell-Weill team can show some possible reason why a hand-full of people respond to one of the most common organisms in the world by acquiring MS, when many millions of people have not, then and only then will a well publicised wild idea become more than just a wild idea.

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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby maxwedge » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:38 am

DrGeoff said, "In other words: when the Cornell-Weill team can show some possible reason why a hand-full of people respond to one of the most common organisms in the world by acquiring MS, when many millions of people have not, then and only then will a well publicised wild idea become more than just a wild idea."

Your misunderstanding of the facts of the study has lead you to a false conclusion. While the bacteria C. perfringens is one of the most common bacteria in the world, it is its subtypes that make the study promising. C. perfringes A is quite common in the human gut and it is believed to be harmless. C. perfringens B and D are the epsilon toxin producing bad guys. Subtype D has only been found in two people before and subtype B has never been found in humans, until now.

"They tested banked blood and spinal fluid from both MS patients and healthy controls for antibody reactivity to the epsilon toxin. Investigators found that levels of epsilon toxin antibodies in MS patients were 10 times higher than in the healthy controls — the blood of only one out of 100 control participants showed an immune reaction to the toxin."

"The natural hosts for C. perfringens toxinotypes B and D are ruminant animals in whom ETX-mediated neurologic symptoms occur when carbohydrate rich feed or over grazing favors exponential growth of the bacilli [11]–[15]. ETX is absorbed via the intestine [11], [14], [16]–[18], enters the blood stream and permeabilizes the BBB, resulting in MS like symptoms (e.g. visual dysfunction, incoordination and spastic paralysis) [8], [10]. Murrell and colleagues, because of these effects on the CNS [19], first suggested ETX as a potential MS trigger although humans are not natural hosts for C. perfringens types B or D [7], [8], [20]–[22]."

Bottom line is, this discovery is indeed very promising for those that suffer MS.
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby cervocuit » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:36 pm

I also think this is very promising, because it respond to the conclusion of Thomas Borody in 2011, who has experimented fecal transplant on MSers…
http://www.cdd.com.au/pdf/publications/ ... 20p111.pdf
Conclusion: We report reversal of major neurological symptoms in three patients after FMT for their underlying GI symptoms. As MS can follow a relapsing-remitting course, this unexpected discovery was not reported until considerable time had passed to confirm prolonged remission. It is tempting to speculate that FMT achieved eradication of an occult GI pathogen driving MS symptoms.
Our finding that FMT can reverse MS-like symptoms suggests a GI infection underpinning these disorders. It is hoped that such serendipitous findings may encourage a new direction in neurological research.
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby maxwedge » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:49 pm

I cannot understand why Borody's results have not shaken the MS world. One would think that sufferers of MS would be screaming for more research into fecal transplants. But rest assured, it is very promising. Imagine a cure.
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby jerrygallow » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:24 pm

another connection that makes sense here. Stress has been shown to alter gut bacteria, and increase other species of clostridium. This would explain why stress can bring on exacerbations

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 094231.htm
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby cheerleader » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:18 pm

The gut is important, but so is the blood brain barrier--and they are related.
Both are protected by endothelial cells, which maintain the permeability and tight junctions of blood vessels, and either allow or block access of plasmic particles and antigens into tissue.

Endothelial cells are affected by hundreds of outside, or environmental, factors--including, but not limited to:
zonulin (protein found in gluten), viruses and bacteria, hormones (such as vitamin D, estrogen, cortisol), exercise (which creates shear stress and promotes tight junctions), UV rays (via nitric oxide release), heavy metals and toxins, trans and saturated fats, glucose, smoking, oxidative stress.

If we look at MS as a disease of endothelial dysfunction and permeability, we can see how all of the environmental factors shown to be related to MS susceptibility and progression--UV rays, latitude, stress, smoking, EBV, cpn, various bacteria--are multi-factorial components which compound endothelial dysfunction.

MS may turn out to be a combo-platter of environmental and genetic components lining up, allowing permeability of the blood brain barrier-- access of the immune system, fibrinogen, and plasmic particles into brain tissue, which begin an inflammatory cycle in those with a genetic susceptability.

Heal the endothelium, heal the gut, heal the blood brain barrier.
This approach has worked for my husband, now 7 years past diagnosis, no MS progression, no further lesions, a reversal in gray matter atrophy (shown on MRI) and reversal of disability.
http://ccsvi.org/index.php/helping-myse ... ial-health

Thankful for the ISNVD--a group of researchers exploring and publishing on endothelial dysfunction in MS and neurological disease. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24228622
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dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby danirs » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:33 am

Hello to all,

please read very carefully the following material:

http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets ... ridium.pdf

Please share opinions.


I have a RRMS. For now i am doing very very well. BUT: there are times when something happens with my gut. And when this happens my body becomes weak, tingling appears. Most of the bad episodes i have are due to stomach problems. I also believe the gut is one of the major problems.
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Re: Extrememly promising

Postby leonardo » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:49 am

pls fix the link
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