negative effects quitting smoking
negative effects quitting smoking
hi im raymond, this is my first time on this forum.
Does anybody have an idea/theory as to why quitting smoking can have a bad effect on MS?
I am currently diagnosed with rrms, had it for 3 years, i am also quitting smoking ( a week in )
stopping smoking has significantly increased my "dizziness" symptoms.
What i find interesting is the fact that this is not the first time ive tried quitting, and consistantly i find that it has this negative effect.
My very first ms symptoms 3 years ago were noticed during an attempt to quit smoking and i see a connection between the 2
Any thoughts would be nice
cheers
Does anybody have an idea/theory as to why quitting smoking can have a bad effect on MS?
I am currently diagnosed with rrms, had it for 3 years, i am also quitting smoking ( a week in )
stopping smoking has significantly increased my "dizziness" symptoms.
What i find interesting is the fact that this is not the first time ive tried quitting, and consistantly i find that it has this negative effect.
My very first ms symptoms 3 years ago were noticed during an attempt to quit smoking and i see a connection between the 2
Any thoughts would be nice
cheers
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Re: negative effects quitting smoking
Hi Raymond,
I ran into a possible reason several months ago. Th17 has been implicated as a contributing factor to ms. It is up regulated/increased by segmented filamentous bacteria in the gut. Side stream smoking reduces the presence of that bacteria. http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/full/v18/i18/2180.htm So, maybe smoking modifies the immune profile that way.
The probiotic l planetarum is supposed to crowd out the sfb. It's probably better for you than smoking.
But, I'm wondering if your dizziness isn't caused by a change in blood pressure...
I ran into a possible reason several months ago. Th17 has been implicated as a contributing factor to ms. It is up regulated/increased by segmented filamentous bacteria in the gut. Side stream smoking reduces the presence of that bacteria. http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/full/v18/i18/2180.htm So, maybe smoking modifies the immune profile that way.
The probiotic l planetarum is supposed to crowd out the sfb. It's probably better for you than smoking.
But, I'm wondering if your dizziness isn't caused by a change in blood pressure...
Re: negative effects quitting smoking
thanks moose,
so assuming the gut bacteria is responsible can i expect this to be a short term problem?
so assuming the gut bacteria is responsible can i expect this to be a short term problem?
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Re: negative effects quitting smoking
You realize that would be a HUGE assumption...
But, working with that assumption, I wouldn't expect the increased symptoms to pass very quickly. The body may eventually find another way to get th17 down to previous levels but the sfb will likely continue to proliferate making symptoms worse for some time. The way around this may be taking a good probiotic with l planetarum as one of the bacteria. Testing your second genome might be interesting...It might show sfb isn't an issue for you at all.
I've taking l planetarum before and it made me herx so you might feel worse from it as it alters the balance of your gut flora.
Welcome to the "wonderful" world of ms. Sad you're here but glad to meet ya.
But, working with that assumption, I wouldn't expect the increased symptoms to pass very quickly. The body may eventually find another way to get th17 down to previous levels but the sfb will likely continue to proliferate making symptoms worse for some time. The way around this may be taking a good probiotic with l planetarum as one of the bacteria. Testing your second genome might be interesting...It might show sfb isn't an issue for you at all.
I've taking l planetarum before and it made me herx so you might feel worse from it as it alters the balance of your gut flora.
Welcome to the "wonderful" world of ms. Sad you're here but glad to meet ya.
Re: negative effects quitting smoking
just ran a quick search out in googlespace and it looks like dizziness is a pretty common nicotine withdrawal symptom.
google search https://www.google.ca/#q=why+would+quit ... +dizziness
excerpt from hits list: "Your body is getting extra oxygen like it hasn't seen for a long time."
google search https://www.google.ca/#q=why+would+quit ... +dizziness
excerpt from hits list: "Your body is getting extra oxygen like it hasn't seen for a long time."
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Re: negative effects quitting smoking
yeah i suppose it could be a few causing this, am goin to try the probiotics, see what happens.
Re: negative effects quitting smoking
sounds good - probiotics certainly shouldn't hurt
nutrient imbalances can mess with the proper composition of gut microflora, so until the nutrient imbalances are sorted, adding an infusion of good bacteria couldn't hurt.
the long term job is to ensure intestinal conditions in which a healthy diverse community of gut bacteria can survive on its own.
smoking has known effects on nutrient status and interactions. so quitting smoking on its own is one good step towards creating a healthier internal environment overall.
nutrient imbalances can mess with the proper composition of gut microflora, so until the nutrient imbalances are sorted, adding an infusion of good bacteria couldn't hurt.
the long term job is to ensure intestinal conditions in which a healthy diverse community of gut bacteria can survive on its own.
smoking has known effects on nutrient status and interactions. so quitting smoking on its own is one good step towards creating a healthier internal environment overall.
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Re: negative effects quitting smoking
Good point! Maybe IF increased sfb population is the cause of worsening with smoking cessation, it resolves itself naturally via improved environment for gut flora. Hadn't thought of that! A probiotic might speed things along though.jimmylegs wrote:smoking has known effects on nutrient status and interactions. so quitting smoking on its own is one good step towards creating a healthier internal environment overall.
Do you have any worsening symptoms other than dizziness? I don't really associate dizziness with inflammation but it isn't one of my symptoms so I'm pretty much in the dark about how it works in relation to ms. To me, dizziness is blood flow and like jimmy referred to, oxygenation. Maybe inflammation affects that more in some than others?
Re: negative effects quitting smoking
would be interesting to see if there is any published research specifically linking dizziness (in ms or otherwise) to composition of intestinal microflora.
to me the oxygen scenario seems very logical. (blood pressure too, anon)
Cigarette Smoking Decreases Tissue Oxygen
http://archsurg.jamanetwork.com/article ... eid=595172
"Subcutaneous wound-tissue oxygen (Psqo2) tension in eight volunteers fell rapidly and significantly in response to smoking, and remained low for 30 to 50 minutes. Sham "smoking" had no effect. These data suggest that a typical "pack-per-day" smoker experiences tissue hypoxia during a significant portion of each day."
Acute effects of cigarette smoking and inhalation of carbon monoxide during maximal exercise
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6685036
"The results suggest that the decrease in VO2 max during smoke is due to the CO-saturation of the blood, and hence to a decrease in the oxygen capacity of the blood..."
On Acute Effects of Cigarette Smoking on Oxygen Consumption, Pulse Rate, Breathing Rate and Blood Pressure in Working Organisms
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract
not conclusive, but still interesting: "SHORT and JOHNSON (1939) assert that changes in pulse rate, blood pressure, skin temperature and blood sugar can be explained by increased secretion of adrenaline. By injecting 1 cc. of 1 : 1,000 adrenaline solution they got similar results to those after smoking. They consider it probable that this is the stimulating influence of nicotine on the sympathico-adrenal system." someone must have followed up on that.
to me the oxygen scenario seems very logical. (blood pressure too, anon)
Cigarette Smoking Decreases Tissue Oxygen
http://archsurg.jamanetwork.com/article ... eid=595172
"Subcutaneous wound-tissue oxygen (Psqo2) tension in eight volunteers fell rapidly and significantly in response to smoking, and remained low for 30 to 50 minutes. Sham "smoking" had no effect. These data suggest that a typical "pack-per-day" smoker experiences tissue hypoxia during a significant portion of each day."
Acute effects of cigarette smoking and inhalation of carbon monoxide during maximal exercise
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6685036
"The results suggest that the decrease in VO2 max during smoke is due to the CO-saturation of the blood, and hence to a decrease in the oxygen capacity of the blood..."
On Acute Effects of Cigarette Smoking on Oxygen Consumption, Pulse Rate, Breathing Rate and Blood Pressure in Working Organisms
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract
not conclusive, but still interesting: "SHORT and JOHNSON (1939) assert that changes in pulse rate, blood pressure, skin temperature and blood sugar can be explained by increased secretion of adrenaline. By injecting 1 cc. of 1 : 1,000 adrenaline solution they got similar results to those after smoking. They consider it probable that this is the stimulating influence of nicotine on the sympathico-adrenal system." someone must have followed up on that.
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Re: negative effects quitting smoking
no its just dizziness that seems to be effected. Its really the only ms symptom i get apart from mild fatigue sometimes.
Re: negative effects quitting smoking
went looking for connections between th17 and symptoms - nothing yet. progression yes, specific symptoms, not so far.
Systemic Inflammation in Progressive Multiple Sclerosis Involves Follicular T-Helper, Th17- and Activated B-Cells and Correlates with Progression
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0057820
The increased frequencies of Th17-cells, activated TFH- and B-cells parallel findings from pathology studies which, along with the correlation between activated TFH- and B-cells and disease progression, suggest a pathogenic role of systemic inflammation in progressive MS.
Systemic Inflammation in Progressive Multiple Sclerosis Involves Follicular T-Helper, Th17- and Activated B-Cells and Correlates with Progression
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0057820
The increased frequencies of Th17-cells, activated TFH- and B-cells parallel findings from pathology studies which, along with the correlation between activated TFH- and B-cells and disease progression, suggest a pathogenic role of systemic inflammation in progressive MS.
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Re: negative effects quitting smoking
You might try niacin or b complex. (I prefer b complex)
http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/rzepa/mim/drugs/ ... cotine.htm
http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/rzepa/mim/drugs/ ... cotine.htm
Niacin has been touted to improve bloodflow and decrease brain fog by several people here. Maybe it will reduce your dizziness.Nicotine can be oxidised to nicotinic acid (niacin) which is present in minute amounts in all living cells. The corresponding amide, niacinamide, is an essential B vitamin.
Re: negative effects quitting smoking
I have used niacin specifically as a vasodilator, transiently increasing blood flow and oxygen/nutrient delivery to tissue. high doses can cause a drop in blood pressure.
if the dizziness is from unaccustomed exposure to oxygen and reduced blood pressure after smoking cessation, I'd be pretty cautious about adding something like niacin to the mix.
if the dizziness is from unaccustomed exposure to oxygen and reduced blood pressure after smoking cessation, I'd be pretty cautious about adding something like niacin to the mix.
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Re: negative effects quitting smoking
It does seem more likely that he is getting more oxygen, rather than less. But, you never know! Those cigarettes might be niacin treasure troves. Lol. Maybe the missing extra niacin outweighs the increased oxygen? B complex would be a more gentle way of testing the idea...
I've managed to kill my phone battery in record time...
I've managed to kill my phone battery in record time...
Re: negative effects quitting smoking
on the cigarette-niacin connection (not a scientific source, but interesting info anyway)
http://addictions.about.com/od/overcomi ... amin_B.htm
•Niacin - Niacin is chemically similar to nicotine. In fact, its name was changed from nicotinic acid to niacin to avoid confusion between the two substances. Again, no studies have proven that Niacin can help smokers quit, but there has been some speculation that niacin eases nicotine addiction. The theory is that the vitamin attaches to the niacin receptor sites in the brain (which are taken up by nicotine in smokers) in the same way that opiates take up the endorphin receptors in the brain in opiate addicts. Large doses of niacin can result in liver damage and other health complications, so you will need to talk with your physician before adding a supplement to your diet.
http://addictions.about.com/od/overcomi ... amin_B.htm
•Niacin - Niacin is chemically similar to nicotine. In fact, its name was changed from nicotinic acid to niacin to avoid confusion between the two substances. Again, no studies have proven that Niacin can help smokers quit, but there has been some speculation that niacin eases nicotine addiction. The theory is that the vitamin attaches to the niacin receptor sites in the brain (which are taken up by nicotine in smokers) in the same way that opiates take up the endorphin receptors in the brain in opiate addicts. Large doses of niacin can result in liver damage and other health complications, so you will need to talk with your physician before adding a supplement to your diet.
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