MS as a vascular disease

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Postby Lyon » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:25 am

TwistedHelix wrote: PS by the way Bob, obviously my photo has been heavily Photoshopped, in reality I'm devastatingly handsome.
Hi Dom,
Why on earth would you want........OH! good idea, to keep the girls away!

I did have my picture on the site at one point. The moderators took a vote and decided it was an obscenity and made me remove it.

That's OK, I've been homely a long time. Been this way my whole life. When I was born the doctor gave me a couple extra swats on the behind but he severely beat my Mom and Dad.

I've got a face even a Mother couldn't love....but at least she doesn't gag anymore so things are looking up! :wink:

Bob
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Postby viper498 » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:22 pm

Lyon,

I'd be honored if you would use my "homely" picture. Keep in mind you will weigh 320 Lbs when you assume this picture. :)

Brock
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Postby Lyon » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:56 pm

viper498 wrote:Lyon,
I'd be honored if you would use my "homely" picture. Keep in mind you will weigh 320 Lbs when you assume this picture. :)
Brock
Three hundred and twenty pounds?? They wouldn't happen to make Budweiser in Missouri would they? :wink:

I've heard that people in Missouri were a bunch of horse traders......or was it horse thieves? I can't remember but I'll play your game. How about we split the difference and we both weigh 258 pounds and we'll both be about 40 years old? You're my buddy and everything but splitting the MS is not negotiable.

Bob
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Postby viper498 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:59 am

As a matter of fact, they do make Budweiser in Missouri. I am not a big drinker though. I do like to eat, and there is plenty of food in Missouri, way too much actually.

LOL, horse traders eh? Well there are a few horses here, of course they could be stolen too??? ;-)

Brock
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Postby Lyon » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:19 am

Hi Brock,
Just trying to give you a little guff, fueled by the memory that the James brothers were from the great state of Missouri. Looking back on it though, seriously it does seem like a dissproportionate number of outlaws were either born in or used Missouri as their stomping grounds.
Bob

viper498 wrote: LOL, horse traders eh? Well there are a few horses here, of course they could be stolen too??? ;-)

Brock
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Postby TwistedHelix » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:06 pm

Of course today, histamine is a none patentable drug and no major drug company would put out the kind of money required to perform the proper research. The person who developed Prokarin ( in essence histamine) didn't even know Jonez existed until she went to get a patent on Prokarin and discovered his work.

Unless a drug is part of the mainstream MS world and is supported by a big pharma, there is no chance at all of anything else catching on in a big way. Just look at what has happened to LDN in the past few years.


Couldn't agree more, Harry. The bottom line is always money, isn't it, and I feel that governments should play a more active role in funding research that isn't generally "profitable" for private companies. If they could only broaden their thinking. Although a national government couldn't profit from the sales of drugs, eradicating a disease like MS would pay an enormous dividend to a society, which would amount to the same thing.

To the cold eye of civil servants, some of us probably amount to little more than red numbers on the spreadsheet of life, (despite the fact that we are far more than that), because we are seen as a, "drain on resources". Even if they are not thinking about our well being, surely the figures should convince them to pay for some less lucrative research?

By the way, Bob, you're right -- I have to beat admirers off with a stick and I have to discourage the thousands of people who would otherwise send me a Valentine's card... my poor postman has a bad back, you know!

Dom.

[EDIT] Another list of things which compromise the BBB, this time from a CFS website:

NLM Citation: PMID: 11461179

Despite volumes of international research, the etiology of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) remains elusive. There is, however, considerable evidence that CFS is a disorder involving the central nervous system (CNS). It is our hypothesis that altered permeability of the blood-brain barrier (BBB) may contribute to ongoing signs and symptoms found in CFS.

To support this hypothesis we have examined agents that can increase the blood-brain barrier permeability (BBBP) and those that may be involved in CFS.

The factors which can compromise the normal BBBP in CFS include viruses, cytokines, 5-hydroxytryptamine, peroxynitrite, nitric oxide, stress, glutathione depletion, essential fatty acid deficiency, and N-methyl-D-aspartate overactivity
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Postby Lyon » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:56 pm

By the way, Bob, you're right -- I have to beat admirers off with a stick and I have to discourage the thousands of people who would otherwise send me a Valentine's card... my poor postman has a bad back, you know!
Dom.
Hi Dom,
So at this late date you're telling the over 3,000 users at thisisms (most of them ladies...LOVELY ladies!) NOT to send the cards we've already purchased?

OK, what if someone made the simple request that you be their Valentine, would you also refuse that?
Bob
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Postby TwistedHelix » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:05 am

But Bob.....you're married!!

Dom. :wink:
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Postby Lyon » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:58 pm

TwistedHelix wrote:But Bob.....you're married!!
Dom. :wink:
I see your point. Maybe I should give the box of chocolates to my wife and just send you the card :lol:
Bob
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Vascular explanation for sex differences in prevalence

Postby lyndacarol » Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:22 pm

Dignan's initial posting here, "Multiple sclerosis as a vascular disease," may explain the recent General Discussion entry, "Change in MS ratio."

If MS has the insulin component (as I believe): insulin damages the endothelium (lining of the blood vessels); women have smaller blood vessels than men--wouldn't symptoms appear more often in women?

In a sense, MS could be a vascular disease!
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Postby Lyon » Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:45 pm

Hi Lynda,

You've gained a lot of evidence along the way and from what I've seen, some, a lot, all of it might be valid.

You won't get an argument from me regarding insulin being a factor of MS.

Our only point of contention is that, although insulin might be a factor in determining if someone with the predisposition for inflammatory disease (politically correct way of saying "autoimmune") gets MS or TD1 as compared to, say rheumatoid arthritis, I'm certain that insulin plays no part in instigation of the inflammatory disease process whereas I think you feel that insulin is a or THE cause of MS.

Of course, to buy into any of my arguments someone has to accept that MS is but one in a spectrum of inflammatory diseases, that the inflammatory disease or diseases a person is afflicted with is owed to genetic variants and that the variants within in each person which causes us to be unique individuals.

That is evidenced by the fact that likliehood of MS incidence is higher in close relatives of someone diagnosed with MS but expotentially higher odds are that a close relative of someone diagnosed with MS will be affected, not specifically with MS but any one of the other inflammatory diseases.

I hope you understand what I just said because it's over my head!

Bob
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My personal history

Postby lyndacarol » Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:25 pm

Be prepared to be bored by my personal story....

Lyon, you wrote:
evidenced by the fact that likliehood of MS incidence is higher in close relatives of someone diagnosed with MS but expotentially higher odds are that a close relative of someone diagnosed with MS will be affected, not specifically with MS but any one of the other inflammatory diseases.


Here is my story; it does not seem to me to fit with your statement:

I was adopted as an infant. About 10 years ago, I learned that my biological father has MS; in fact, he was practically bed-ridden at that time. (This was not encouraging to me--diagnosed with my own MS a few years earlier.) I never lived with this person so I could not have "caught" this from him. With my insulin angle, I believe I inherited a weak or prone-to-malfunctioning pancreas from him!

Although each case of MS is unique, I still think there must be some element common to all.

Ordinarily, I am very private about my life; I hope not to reveal more personal, boring details.
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Postby TonyJegs » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:15 pm

Lyon wrote:That is evidenced by the fact that likliehood of MS incidence is higher in close relatives of someone diagnosed with MS but expotentially higher odds are that a close relative of someone diagnosed with MS will be affected, not specifically with MS but any one of the other inflammatory diseases.


If one of parents has MS, then the ratio of likelihood of MS in their children, compare to common population, is 50:1, high enough, unfortunately.

MS in this situation usually strikes kids during their first puberty period, when they are 7-9 years old. The main provocative factor (trigger) is a ‘regular’ viral infection. You couldn’t name it MS actually, there are no usual lesions as a rule, but you have first cerebral symptoms appearance, clinically it could be named as a very mild viral leukoencephalitis.
This is actually a rather crucial event, the first ever damage of CNS. These cases are usually under looked, symptoms are really very mild. But for sure, if this episode has been occurred, the development of MS for such kids is guaranteed in the future.

I believe that special screening of kids at risk of MS (born from MS parents) could reduce the number of adult MS cases remarkably. More, it will be possible to follow-up them later, at least up to the age of 35, which could help in early diagnosing of MS in tricky cases.
Do you know the country which does that?

Kind regards,
Tony
"All truth passes through three stages.
First it is ridiculed.
Second it is violently opposed.
Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Schopenhauer
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Postby Lyon » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:58 pm

lyndacarol wrote:Be prepared to be bored by my personal story....
Ordinarily, I am very private about my life; I hope not to reveal more personal, boring details.
Hi Lynda,
Haven't you heard that enquiring minds want to know? Feel free to bring out the dirt....but something a little more exciting would be nice!

Seriously, regardless of ANY theory regarding reasons for incidence that someone comes up, with there is at least one genetic factor genetic factor involved.
With my insulin angle, I believe I inherited a weak or prone-to-malfunctioning pancreas from him!
I can't say it led to your MS but you certainly owe your prone to malfunctioning pancreas, at least partly to him!

TonyJegs wrote: Do you know the country which does that?
Hi Tony,
No, if there is a country which does that right now, I'm not aware of it.....Germany??
Bob
Last edited by Lyon on Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby gwa » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:28 pm

Tony,

My guess is that it is one of the Scandinavian countries.

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