Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Anonymoose » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:24 am

I wonder if your fatigue isn't due to excess iron. Is your lactoferrin iron loaded or iron free? You might want to stop taking it if it is iron loaded. You could do all sorts of things to reduce iron absorption from diet too.
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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Scott1 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:23 am

It doesn't appear to be iron loaded. Here's a link to the company website with product info - http://www.bioceuticals.com.au/product/ ... in-plus-SB

It's not normal fatigue either. Real fatigue is more like being made out of wet cement. I have no cognitive issues either. The flat battery only happens when I really exert myself. I mentioned on another post how well I managed really physical work moving a warehouse full of books at Christmas time. I could pull on my reserves of energy quite freely. Now I need to sit down and wait for several hours. It's more like I've gone from Superman to Clark Kent. I'm not fatigued in the usual sense. I was up at 4.50am this morning so that I could shower and breakfast before dropping my daughter off at her part time job in a coffee shop. If I was fatigued that would be a drain. It's no problem at all. Only heavy exertion drains me.

My suspicion is this stuff does exactly what it is supposed to do but it brings the issue of infections from the background to the foreground. If it is exposing these underlying pathogens to a natural immune response then that's a good thing but leaving your immune system to do the work might not be enough and may be agonizingly slow. It will also imply that impact will be very individualized depending on the nature of underlying infections and the extent of them,

As I am bloody minded, I will continue the balance of this week long experiment, have a one week break and do the same thing the following week.

The evil pixie of self doubt is chattering away in my left ear but I have a reckless tendency to rely on luck because I lack talent so we will see what happens.

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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby CureOrBust » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:02 am

Scott1 wrote:My suspicion is this stuff does exactly what it is supposed to do but it brings the issue of infections from the background to the foreground. If it is exposing these underlying pathogens to a natural immune response then that's a good thing but leaving your immune system to do the work might not be enough and may be agonizingly slow.
But you also take Valtrex? which would hopefully give your immune system an "extra edge".

Sorry, I don't remember, are you RR, SP or PP?
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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Scott1 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:46 am

And that is an extremely important point. By midday yesterday I had a full charge of energy back and could draw on it again without being flattened. I think the Valtrex was a case of too much chilli in the curry. Finally I could empathise with the people who struggle to take it. I guess it's all about balance. Today is day 7 for me and I feel fine. I really thought I was doing something stupid on day 3. Hopefully I never feel like that again. I will take the weeks break and repeat but I will leave the Valtrex in the drawer.
What sort of MS do I have? I was RR and was diagnosed 20 years ago with a right sided pontial lesion that badly affected my left side plus a string of other lesions. The pontial lesion has resolved and my MRI's only show 7 scars now. My older scans look a lot worse than recent ones but the Neuros are disinterested in what I have been doing (no surprise there).
I would say I am completely in remission and I doubt I will ever relapse. I was sliding downhill till I combined Valtrex with Avonex. (I may have been amongst the first Avonex users in Melbourne so it is quite a while ago), Neither one, on its own, was much use. It was the combination.
That helped me turn the corner but it wasn't the answer, just an intermediate step.
After a lot of stuffing around I have concluded that two things go wrong 1) the kidney/renal axis has failed us from birth and 2) we get exposed to a persistent virus (implies herpes family) that ultimately leads to the excessive production of peroxynitrite and a series of knock on effects.
I can't explain how demylination fits into my view but none of the explanations are really satisfactory. The observations of Moscarello ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC296292/ ) are the only sensible things I have seen on MS myelin.
I've mainly stuck to two posts; "Avonex and Valtrex" and "Beyond Avonex and Valtrex". I think the latter is more useful but it might be hard to follow. If I can help anybody, I am happy to try but remember what I did took a long time. There is no magic bullet.
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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Anonymoose » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:31 am

How ya feeling?? Any difference? Superman powers back??
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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Scott1 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:22 pm

Completely back to normal.

I nearly posted a note to say this yesterday but thought it was too soon to be believable. Nonetheless, the day after I stopped taking the Lactoferrin my energy levels zoomed straight up. I'm the best I've been in ages. I do Pilates at lunchtimes at a very high level and had been struggling a bit for the last week. Yesterday I was doing things with ease. Even the girl who teaches me commented on how hard I was working. Zero fatigue to follow this.
I presume this means the down side is transitory and if you have a bad reaction just stop and it will clear up. I'll have my weeks rest and go again albeit apprehensively.

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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Anonymoose » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:03 am

The best you've been in ages? Wow. It will be interesting to see if you react less during your next pulse. The comparison will be messed up because you're changing the formula by nixing valtrex but maybe if you do a third round some wobbly assumptions could be made.

Still messing with other supplements but thus far am anxious to join your little experiment.
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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Scott1 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:30 am

I start the second dose now. Feeling fine at the start so there are no excuses. No Valtrex this time.

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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby leonardo » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:30 pm

What's the difference between ebv infection in healthy people and in people that get/have ms?

Is there any way to measure ebv treatment?
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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Scott1 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:55 pm

Hi,

I would say the EBV infection follows the same path but it is how it is handled that differs. There is a note in the Regimen section called "Beyond Avonex and Valtrex" which is complex but sets out what I think is happening. In essence if you are healthy, produce symmetric dimethylargine, have adequate megalin as a transport agent and low levels of iNOS you will be able to produce adequate levels of Vit D, B12 and A and have blood vessels that can vasodilate and can contain EBV as your nonessential amino acids will be sufficient and you will have a normal range of uric acid which enables you to scavenge peroxynitrite. These functions originate in the renal/kidney axis which may be a faulty or disrupted element to establish a precondition for MS. If Megalin is faulty and you are producing asymmetric dimethylarginine, the iNOS will be elevated and VIt D, B12 and A will be low and your blood vessels will be constricted. Your nonessential amino acids will be on the low side. This will make it more difficult to contain the EBV infected B cells. This will lead to the excess production of superoxide which will lead on to the excess production of Peroxynitrite. Your uric acid will have fallen and be unable to scavenge the Peroxynitrite adequately. The excess Peroxynitrite will disable glyceraldehyde 3 phosphate and you will be unable to bind phosphate molecules to ADP to make ATP. As a consequence you will be unable to make energy.
This experiment is about using Lactoferrin to block the binding of EBV to B cells by utilising iron. I'm just a guinea pig to see what happens. I suspect if you have many pathogens you will find it hard work. This week I'm trying it without an antiviral and so far I'm ok although slightly sluggish.

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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Scott1 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:48 pm

Day 4 today and I feel fine. Again I did feel a little apprehensive on day 3 but not as noticeably as last time. Perhaps I will have to go another week long test with Valtrex again to see if I can repeat the week 1 outcome. Hopefully I feel nothing as I do this time.
It seems to me that if you do add this in then it should be tolerable and side effects quickly cease if you stop. Medication may interact. Unfortunately I can't objectively assess if there is any benefit in doing this.

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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Scott1 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:12 pm

I'm stopping.

I took the day 4 dose and just felt more bombed as the day went on. I've just had one of those non refreshing catnaps and feel odd all over. I know what comes next if I continue so goodbye Lactoferrin.

This doesn't mean it isn't working. I just don't need this. I might take a Valtrex tomorrow and see if it helps.

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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Anonymoose » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:51 am

Well that was out of the blue! How strange. I hope you bounce back quickly again. :)
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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Scott1 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:15 pm

It really was. I had the deepest sleep last night and feel a bit more normal today. I think I will be fine.
It was such an uncomfortable experience. I certainly felt tense and I was stiffening up a little but it was the bombed feeling that I couldn't tolerate. I've been so well for so long but that feeling just brought all the memories of how bad you can feel rushing back and I just couldn't do it. Whatever Lactoferrin does it isn't for me. My guess is it works but I have something underlying that really gets stirred up by its action. I also had that feeling where you say to yourself "I think I'm getting a headache" and sometimes you do and sometimes you don't. This morning I had a lump in my throat but not the tight neck that I had with the Valtrex. I think it will pass. All this has really made me feel for the girl in the study you posted. She did, however, end up ok.
The problem now is a sample consisting of one old fool is not enough to draw a proper conclusion and we don't really know what happened to me. The good news is something does happen and that bears thinking about. I may have been herxing. I may have gone too hard at it. It might be a bad thing. This is like standing on a dirty lottery ticket in the street. If you don't pick it up and check the numbers then your life will definitely stay the same. It's still worth thinking about.

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Last edited by Scott1 on Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lactoferrin may protect B cells from ebv infection

Postby Anonymoose » Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:25 pm

Thanks for expanding upon things. I think I'll give it a good long time before I consider taking lactoferrin. When I get things straightened out, I'd like to enjoy just being normal for a while.

I wonder how hard it would be to get the ebv adoptive immunotherapy. It's been all over the place for cancer for years. Based on that other sample of n=1, it sounds a lot friendlier than lactoferrin.

Glad you're recovering already. :)
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