Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby THX1138 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:10 pm

That sounds like progress with narrowing it down closer to what the real problem is :-D :?:
I will add that there are some seemingly weird stretches out there that are not at all intuitive. There may be more stretches that are also important for you.
While there must be a number of good books on stretching, one comes to mind (I bought it from Amazon :wink: - Stretching Anatomy.

Now for the muscles, two things, along with a good stretching routine, come to mind:
1) Hydration
2) Magnesium

I'm sure other will have more ideas.
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:57 pm

great news jaded, good idea re teasing out the differences, thx :D

all in all, sounds somewhat similar to what's been going with my leg/knee since surgery then - my physio used to spend a lot of time trying to release my outer quads with rollers (OWWW) and such. as time has gone by he realized my inner and outer quad strength is uneven, outer quads do all the work and when they tighten up as a result, they pull the knee cap out of alignment. now we are emphasizing inner quad activation and strengthening, to get things balanced out so that i can maybe climb a set of stairs normally again, at some magical future date :S

to add to what thx has said, as you know i'd mention cofactors like potassium, B6 and so on.
i'll also invite thx add a cautionary note where hydration is concerned :)
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby THX1138 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:21 pm

While I can't say I have this all figured out yet, here are a few things:
For the problem of dehydration:
1) Avoid reverse osmosis filtered water
2) Don't drink more and more because you are dry or thirsty.
3) To be well hydrated, water is not the only factor.
4) Do not shy away from salt
5) Read http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic24583.html
and
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic24479.html
6) Consume water gradually - throughout the day - no water drinking contest kind of drinking speed.
Last edited by THX1138 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby Jaded » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:28 pm

Ok you got me THX! I am terrible for hydration! And I do like my food salty.

And yes JL I have had that same issue - maybe it's just deterioratied - inner quads are weak. I used to run quite a lot when I was younger and had to do extra exercises to keep that knee cap in place!

Hey hope you manage to get yours balanced soon.

I was right though. Knees feeling like they need oiling again :(

Oh gawd. Will have to carry a notebook around...!
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby THX1138 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:36 pm

Salty food can be a part of a hydration routine if it is helping you get enough sodium to go with your higher water intake.
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby Jaded » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:40 pm

Ah not sure I do it for that reason - but it will help.

Great links - thanks. So the water could help hydrate my joints...... :smile:

I do drink herbal teas but not enough. Does coffee count?? :?

Ok more water....I have a filter tap installed. The UK's finest recycled water. :roll:
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby THX1138 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:48 pm

Oh gawd. Will have to carry a notebook around...!


I got a tablet (not pharmaceutical) on which I put the app, iPro Habit Tracker http://tech.co/best-habit-and-mood-tracking-apps-2013-08 to keep track of all the things I need to do to get better.

The free version is good
The 3 dollar version is ever better (as it should be).

I wished I'd got the pay version first, so I didn't have to set it up again.
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby lyndacarol » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:50 pm

Coffee is the number one source of antioxidants for most people in the US, which makes it a great anti-inflammatory product. (In case anyone is interested, I have NEVER liked or drunk coffee.) As jimmylegs posted here earlier, the joint situation may be more of an inflammatory thing. For that reason, coffee might be a great help.
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby THX1138 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:52 pm

Great links - thanks. So the water could help hydrate my joints...... :smile:

Thanks :-D
I was thinking of the hydration of your muscles. Joints need water (fluid) also, though.
Last edited by THX1138 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:53 pm

No Evidence of Dehydration with Moderate Daily Coffee Intake: A Counterbalanced Cross-Over Study in a Free-Living Population
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0084154
"participants consumed either 4×200 mL of coffee containing 4 mg/kg caffeine (C) or water (W). ... coffee, when consumed in moderation by caffeine habituated males provides similar hydrating qualities to water."
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby THX1138 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:58 pm

An important addition to my previous post:
6) Consume water gradually - throughout the day - no water drinking contest kind of drinking speed.
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby THX1138 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:03 pm

JL I have also heard it said that coffee (caffeinated) is not dehydrating, but in my experience and also based on things I have read, I have to disagree.
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:27 pm

it's certainly contradictory to anything else i've ever seen about coffee, given that it's a diuretic. but it may still be a matter of degree and combinations.
this study looks at 6 cups a day combined with rather than instead of water
Coffee Consumption and Total Body Water Homeostasis as Measured by Fluid Balance and Bioelectrical Impedance Analysis
http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/177975
During the first day, fluid requirement was met by mineral water. On the following day the same amount of fluid was supplied and the mineral water was in part replaced by 6 cups of coffee containing 642 mg of caffeine. This led to an increase in 24-hour urine excretion of 753 ± 532 ml (p < 0.001), a corresponding negative fluid balance and a concomitant decrease in body weight of 0.7 ± 0.4 kg (p < 0.001).

bringing it back to spasticity in particular, here's an odd study:
A double-blind, randomized, crossover study of the safety and efficacy of a combination of carisoprodol, paracetamol, caffeine, and B-vitamins in the treatment of spastic muscle contractures
http://www.moreirajr.com.br/revistas.as ... teria=3592
"oral administration of the combination of carisoprodol, paracetamol, caffeine and the B-vitamins is safe and effective in the treatment of spastic muscle contracture."
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby Scott1 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:19 pm

Remember you don't just wake up one day and say " I feel spastic today". It creeps up on you. Over time you move more slowly, your feet hurt, you can't twist to look over your shoulder as easily as you used to, everybody else walks more quickly than you. You put it down to getter older and don't think any more of it. Several days before the attack I had when I was first diagnosed a friend saw me in the street and wanted to know why I was walking like an old man. I hadn't even noticed. You can be spastic and feel nothing particular. Spasms are generally either caused by muscles already being too tight or circulation issues. They may present as spastic features but could as likely be caused by incorrect movement or vasodilation problems.
The stuff you need to work on starts at the soles of your feet. Across the sole is an area called the plantar. You may feel a tendon that's too tight in that region. As it pulls tighter it gets harder to bear weight. Even if you lie down it still feels like it throbs. Everything works up from there. To compensate for the feet you change your gait. The legs become straighter and then stiffer as your hamstrings start to lose range. This throws the hips and pelvis out of alignment so then the back tries to compensate.
Other tendons can tighten through other mechanisms. I had a problem with my hand contorting into weird positions which was painful to deal with. Then when you had forced everything back into normal positions it would suddenly be fine again.
We all have differing issues but I have found Pilates to be best for me. Done properly it is a great way to focus on small muscles. eg If you have sore knees then the little muscle about one inch long that sits above and on the inside of the leg is probably too weak to balance the power of the quads. You need to isolate it and work it on its own. Pilates lets you do that. You can start at any level and a good teacher can become your best friend (happened to me!!). The bottom line is do something don't sit around- ever! The problem will only get worse. Stop reading this and go and start doing something to stretch you. You are already in a bad posture as you read this.
Last edited by Scott1 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Quick question, your spasticity, what does it feel like?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:59 pm

at their weirdest, my wrists did the inward bend - it was so odd that such an unnatural position was how my hands wanted to be. somewhere between this
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5i3z_T92OOs/U ... stroke.jpg
and this
http://www.botoxmedical.com/_images/uls ... _large.jpg
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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