Pharmaceutical Companies

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Postby willysnout1 » Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:51 pm

OddDuck wrote:Oh....and if anyone might be interested; if you read the NMSS website closely, you will find many references to their support of drug trials.

What I read indicates that the NMSS compiles information about ongoing drug trials conducted by others, but does not operate, participate in or finance any such trials themselves. Therefore, there is no NMSS angle to the Schering-Plough allegations. But who knows, maybe the NMSS has a policy position in education reform in New Mexico.
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Postby OddDuck » Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:25 am

You know what, Willy? Calling anybody else's opinion "nonsense" or "irrelevant" IS 4th grade! And this IS neither the time nor the place to just plain argue with someone personally, and not simply address the topic of discussion of this thread. And I will only talk about this to you this one time. Don't try to bait me in the future, either, because I won't be taking the bait.

This was a very interesting topic, where people had thought provoking comments to make, until you jumped in and basically told us all how stupid we all were. That's the bottom line of almost all of your comments. You can NOT call that a debate and think that makes it ok. Thank you for putting the big damper on a topic of discussion that could have proven to be very informative and interesting! After this, I'm certain that very few will be inclined to post to this thread. Congratulations, Willy.

You are entitled to YOUR opinion, also, Willy, but in my world, just because it's an opinion YOU hold doesn't make the rest of us "irrelevant", childish, or stupid; and it doesn't make it "gospel", just because YOU say so! You don't just express your opinion on a topic, you attack other people's opinions as if we're all idiots.

And frankly, I'm highly insulted - not only for myself, but for others. You're an intelligent man, whose thoughts and opinions would be very interesting if you would back off trying to make everybody else look wrong simply to help your position (which where you got that idea you needed to do, I'll never know, but I'll bet you it wasn't from us!). You KNOW I listen and consider your comments with respect. But you know what? If you can't find it within you to afford me or anyone else with the same respect, then you tell me ONE good reason why I should stay and be victimized by you?

We are not all running for public office in this forum, Willy. A smear campaign against any of us just isn't part of my game plan. You don't like that? Fine. Your prerogative. But it is MY prerogative to ask you to either treat me with respect or do not direct any comments my way! You want to run a smear campaign? Well........I say again - and you're right, it's too bad I have to say it - but that's pretty 4th grade low tactics, Willy. This forum is neither the time nor the place to do such a thing (in MY opinion)!

And to the moderators of this forum, I express my sincere apologies for holding such a ridiculous conversation with someone which is totally IRRELEVANT to the topic of this thread.

Hang it up, Willy. I'm more than happy to enter into lively debates with you, but not when you cross over the "respect" line to do so.

Is there EVER a time, Willy, when YOU might have read or interpreted something wrong or incorrectly? Is that even REMOTELY possible in your mind? Where are all the totally indisputable concrete "facts" for YOUR opinions and positions?

Don't even answer me, Willy. Because frankly, I already hold my opinion on that, and as a wise man usually tells us quite often, I'm sure your comment will only be spouting nonsense. (Attractive verbal presentation, that is, isn't it?)

Now, for the last time, Willy. I consider you an intelligent and interesting person with whom I would really enjoy interacting with, but this will be the last time I will partake in this type of totally unproductive exchange with you on a public forum such as this. And frankly, (and I'm only going to say this once), for whatever it's worth, your behavior toward Harry is abominable and very unattractive.

This is also totally disrespectful to the owners, administrators, and moderators of this website, not to mention the other forum members.

Again, I apologize, folks.

Deb
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Postby HarryZ » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:37 am

Deb,

OddDuck wrote:Plus, ask around. How many MSers feel "pressured" from certain neuros to take ONLY MS injectable drugs, and those same neuros won't even consider outside MS therapies?


Was reading on another MS Forum website last night about a lady from Washington State who has MS and was prescribed Neurontin by her neuro.
After a short period of time, she simply did not feel right and told her neuro about the symptoms that she was having. The doc replied to her...."not one of my other patients on Neurontin as ever had those symptoms so I want you to continue to use the drug." She refused and fired him shortly afterword when he wouldn't change his attitude.

I wonder if he was one of the docs that was "duped" into using Neurontin by Pfizer per the NY Times article.

Harry
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Postby OddDuck » Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:06 am

You know, Harry. That's interesting. And something of a shame, purely in my opinion. To my knowledge and belief, there are plenty of other drugs (AEDs, etc.) that work very well for people, other than Neurontin! I mean....geez....it depends on the person. Ibuprofen doesn't seem to work for me at all, whereas acetaminophen (sp?) works great; whereas other folks swear by the opposite. You'd think that that would only prove itself to be common sense (that some folks can't take certain drugs), so you can't help but seriously wonder "why" the insistence on only one particular drug option! I'm sorry, but that is very suspicious.

As you might have read on other group boards, that type of thing comes up quite often, too. Hence, why so many MSers are interested in information exchange between us!

I myself was (mis)-quoted (in my chart) as "refusing further treatment and testing", when the only thing I had done was to refuse injectable treatments, and that was even after having proven how well my particular choice of therapy was currently working for me! And I was asking for more tests to be run to see exactly what might be happening with my health condition! Needless to say, I was a little chagrined at that comment in my chart, which was not exactly the truth.

But, on the other side of the coin, I can't totally hold the doctor completely responsible for his comments, because what if he HAS been convinced (moreso by pharmaceutical companies than anywhere else, due to their powerful influence) that injectables ARE the only way to go?

This seems to be so doggoned prevelant....(i.e. the same type of experiences happening to people).

Plus, I could be wrong, but I can't believe that someone just flat out "targeted" pharmaceutical companies out of the blue without SOME sort of substantiating evidence that there was probable cause.

You know what concerns me most? What about those patients who are NOT aware of their possible options and have complete faith in their doctors (as they should, but it may possibly be displaced)? It really concerns me.

Deb
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Postby willysnout1 » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:07 am

OddDuck wrote:You know what, Willy? Calling anybody else's opinion "nonsense" or "irrelevant" IS 4th grade!

I call 'em like I see 'em. If I simply flung the labels without explaining my reasoning, it would be one thing. But I always say why I think what I do.

OddDuck wrote:And this IS neither the time nor the place to just plain argue with someone personally

I haven't made anything personal. Others have done so, but not me.

OddDuck wrote:This was a very interesting topic, where people had thought provoking comments to make, until you jumped in and basically told us all how stupid we all were.

I didn't call anyone stupid, tempting though it might have been.

OddDuck wrote:Thank you for putting the big damper on a topic of discussion that could have proven to be very informative and interesting!

The premise of the discussion was such that it would be difficult to be "informative" on the topic.

Odd Duck wrote:Willy, but in my world, just because it's an opinion YOU hold doesn't make the rest of us "irrelevant", childish, or stupid; and it doesn't make it "gospel", just because YOU say so! You don't just express your opinion on a topic, you attack other people's opinions as if we're all idiots.

I plead not guilty. I've gone after opinions, not people, and have matched my pointedness to the opinion.

OddDuck wrote:We are not all running for public office in this forum, Willy. A smear campaign against any of us just isn't part of my game plan. You don't like that? Fine. Your prerogative.

Huh? Um, I'm certainly not running for public office nor am I even suggesting that the State Department hire me as a diplomat unless perhaps there is a country with whom they would wish to ruin our relations. :) As for "smear campaigns," I dare say there aren't enough people on this board to make a smear campaign worth the time 'n trouble, especially given that we're all anonymous to begin with.

OddDuck wrote:But it is MY prerogative to ask you to either treat me with respect or do not direct any comments my way!

I think a sign of respect is to take you seriously enough to criticize your ideas. The time to wonder if I'm taking you seriously if when I post meaniingless white-bread agreement with you, devoid of any real content.

OddDuck wrote:Is there EVER a time, Willy, when YOU might have read or interpreted something wrong or incorrectly?

If you look on the "Introduction" thread, page 10, you will see my apology to a woman who posted about her 16-year-old son. I think it was a fairly humble apology, but if the woman were to think "not humble enough" then I'd be happy to become even humbler.
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Postby willysnout1 » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:17 am

HarryZ wrote:Was reading on another MS Forum website last night about a lady from Washington State who has MS and was prescribed Neurontin by her neuro.

After a short period of time, she simply did not feel right and told her neuro about the symptoms that she was having. The doc replied to her...."not one of my other patients on Neurontin as ever had those symptoms so I want you to continue to use the drug." She refused and fired him shortly afterword when he wouldn't change his attitude.

I wonder if he was one of the docs that was "duped" into using Neurontin by Pfizer per the NY Times article.

I'd be curious about the use of Neurotonin among MSers and what the results have been. Along those lines, I posted a question on the Mass General BrainTalk board. Here is a link to the thread.
Last edited by willysnout1 on Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby OddDuck » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:22 am

I dare say there aren't enough people on this board to make a smear campaign worth the time 'n trouble, especially given that we're all anonymous to begin with.

And I think this board is now going to be one less than it was before. And that's a shame. Congratulations, Willy. You win. One day it'll only be you here talking to yourself, I daresay.

Adios. It's been nice meeting everyone.

Deb
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Postby willysnout1 » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:27 am

Deb, why don't you stick around and I will stop responding to anything you write? I think it's more important for you to stay here than it is for me to reply to what you write.
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Postby OddDuck » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:23 pm

Willy,

That would be the administrator of this website's call. [NOTE: This was written in response to Willy's original post about whether he goes, not only due to me, but also due to others' "retorts" to him, or whether I go. He has since changed it, so this answer may seem a bit odd.]

You know what I find so interesting, though? If you follow my postings on other MS group boards, I believe you will find that I'm the same person there as I am here.

I find it amazing that your posts (and their tone) on "braintalk" are almost the very opposite of what they are here, leading me to "wonder"..........just "wonder".......... what your true purpose or intent for even visiting this board really is? And maybe more importantly, "why"?

Just found it interesting............

Well, again...............Have a good one. Thanks to all for allowing me to join you for a while.

Deb

P.S. It's not just "me" you disrupt or upset, Willy.........it's the whole discussion itself. Not responding to me alone won't solve the difficulty, I don't believe. Your first post, before you edited it just now, may have been more to the point.

No problem, though. As I said, it's not my call.
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