NZ ms study

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NZ ms study

Postby TonyNZ » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:36 pm

Some positive news from my neck of the woods. (New Zealand)

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/anti-ps ... dy-6057457
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Re: NZ ms study

Postby HarryZ » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:18 pm

TonyNZ wrote:Some positive news from my neck of the woods. (New Zealand)

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/anti-ps ... dy-6057457


Just when you think the researchers had reached the end of trying different kinds of heavy duty immune suppressive drugs they now are using anti-psychotic drugs for MS!! Hmmm....
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Re: NZ ms study

Postby Kronk » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:45 pm

I have been following this for several months and I wouldn't be too quick to write it off... I agree that the immune suppression treats a symptom not the illness, like taking tylenol to reduce fever when you have the flu. Anti-depressants work by adjusting or blocking receptors for dopamine and serotonin in the brain. By taking small amounts of them it may in fact cause a rebound effect like that seen in LDN. Where a flood of receptors are created causing an overall increase. Two common symptoms of MS are Fatigue and Depression. Both tied to serotonin and dopamine levels, which are just neurotransmitters...

Whether it brings us closer to a cure or not who knows but another effective treatment with low side effects I am all for.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0X00004111
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Re: NZ ms study

Postby HarryZ » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:57 am

Kronk wrote:I have been following this for several months and I wouldn't be too quick to write it off... I agree that the immune suppression treats a symptom not the illness, like taking tylenol to reduce fever when you have the flu. Anti-depressants work by adjusting or blocking receptors for dopamine and serotonin in the brain. By taking small amounts of them it may in fact cause a rebound effect like that seen in LDN. Where a flood of receptors are created causing an overall increase. Two common symptoms of MS are Fatigue and Depression. Both tied to serotonin and dopamine levels, which are just neurotransmitters...

Whether it brings us closer to a cure or not who knows but another effective treatment with low side effects I am all for.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0X00004111


Hi Kronk,

Actually I'm hoping this new research brings some kind of relief to MS patients but I wonder what the long term use of anti-psychotic drugs would have on your system.

MS patients, over the years, have been sort of a "dumping ground" for drugs that are/were used for other diseases such as cancer. While there has been some benefit you wonder about the side effects over the long haul. But maybe this will be different...I hope.
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Re: NZ ms study

Postby Kronk » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:18 am

HarryZ wrote:MS patients, over the years, have been sort of a "dumping ground" for drugs that are/were used for other diseases such as cancer.


Very true... I guess they got frustrated by not being able to hit the target so they started carpet bombing. I am happy to see they are moving away from immune suppression and into alternative theories.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24711809
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Re: NZ ms study

Postby HarryZ » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:33 am

Very true... I guess they got frustrated by not being able to hit the target so they started carpet bombing. I am happy to see they are moving away from immune suppression and into alternative theories.

http://ww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24711809


Yes, the alternative venue has been gaining far more attention as it should. But the old boys club of immune system altering drugs do whatever they can to discredit the alternative work since it can threaten their cash cow drugs which makes them billions of dollars!

One example was shortly after Zamboni made his CCSVI work public this group very hastily got a study going to try and discredit his work. Bad study and poorly designed from what I read but nonetheless it's purpose was to protect the revenue!
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Re: NZ ms study

Postby CureOrBust » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:45 pm

HarryZ wrote:MS patients, over the years, have been sort of a "dumping ground" for drugs that are/were used for other diseases such as cancer.
You appear to be saying this as a "bad thing" :smile: If only they had started with this years ago, who knows what they may of accidentally hit by now. :?: its not like mice are an endangered species :wink: Actually, maybe these tests would of shown how bad the current MS mouse models are. :?
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Re: NZ ms study

Postby HarryZ » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:10 pm

CureOrBust wrote:
HarryZ wrote:MS patients, over the years, have been sort of a "dumping ground" for drugs that are/were used for other diseases such as cancer.
You appear to be saying this as a "bad thing" :smile: If only they had started with this years ago, who knows what they may of accidentally hit by now. :?: its not like mice are an endangered species :wink: Actually, maybe these tests would of shown how bad the current MS mouse models are. :?


Well, I'm not sure if one can categorize this as being good or bad. :-? If it had lead to far better treatments for MS patients then it would have been good but these drugs had outlived their use in cancer treatments and the drug company decided "let's try them out on MS patients". The premise was based on the theory that MS was an autoimmune disease (never been proven) and that these drugs altered the immune system so give it a shot. In most cases they didn't have that much of an effect on the MS in the long run.

And it wasn't all that long ago that this practice took place....late 90's after the CRAB drugs weren't giving the results they had expected. As for the poor MS mouse....little critters have been put through the ringer for years showing how effective many drugs were in stopping and reversing mouse MS. Only problem is mouse MS is so different than human MS nothing that worked in the mouse has worked in humans! Yet still today how many times have we read that a new promising drug has been used on the mouse and shown very promising results!! Great for the mouse I suppose ;)
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Existing drugs

Postby TonyNZ » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:05 pm

I am quite excited about the following link:
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco ... l?page=all

For a while now, I have noticed that whenever I get a cold or flu and take med-lemon (lemsip in some countries) a soluble, cheap anti-flu medicine available in most supermarkets or 7/11 stores, I notice an improvement in some of my ms symptoms. I had mentioned this to my GP a while ago and received a knowing look in return, but this link is validation of my pet theory - that we will find solutions to ms from existent medicine.

Anyone else experienced the same?

Rgds

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Re: NZ ms study

Postby DrGeoff » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:21 am

Something I was taught nearly 30 years back was about Dopamine:
Not enough and you have Parkinsons Disease - too much and you are now psychotic!
From that - the correct balance of one neuro-transmitter chemical is important.
Wow, what a discovery! Parkinsons and MS do have between 60% and 80% commonality of symptoms, of course, and modern medicine is mainly about treating symptoms, not about cures.

LDN may work by subtle adjustment of chemical balance - and if it does not work for you, you may have a different imbalance.

Gabapentin works for epileptics by "smoothing out" the firing of synapses - which may be why it works so well against the "Electric Shock" type of neuropathic pain that some of us get with MS.

I will not speculate about the function of high-dose statins as an MS treatment, but my neuro is starting to make noises about it - and the possible dose is four times what I take to keep chloresterol under control.

There is an old saying that if a stupid idea works - then it is not stupid. The problem is in defining what you understand by "works".

Geoff
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Re: Existing drugs

Postby Kronk » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:56 am

TonyNZ wrote:I am quite excited about the following link:
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco ... l?page=all

For a while now, I have noticed that whenever I get a cold or flu and take med-lemon (lemsip in some countries) a soluble, cheap anti-flu medicine available in most supermarkets or 7/11 stores, I notice an improvement in some of my ms symptoms. I had mentioned this to my GP a while ago and received a knowing look in return, but this link is validation of my pet theory - that we will find solutions to ms from existent medicine.


WOW... Tavist, which also is sold generically as clemastine fumarate. Again we see Fumarate or fumaric acid. It is the active ingredient in Tecifidera and is an intermediate in the citric acid cycle used by cells to produce ATP and the molecular building blocks for everything else in your body. The body naturally makes Fumaric Acid but it must have vitamin D.
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Re: Existing drugs

Postby NHE » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:47 pm

Kronk wrote:WOW... Tavist, which also is sold generically as clemastine fumarate. Again we see Fumarate or fumaric acid. It is the active ingredient in Tecfidera and is an intermediate in the citric acid cycle used by cells to produce ATP and the molecular building blocks for everything else in your body. The body naturally makes Fumaric Acid but it must have vitamin D.


Tecfidera is dimethylfumarate and the active metabolite is monomethylfumarate. These are both esters. However, regular fumarate is the salt of the carboxylic acid (a carboxylate) which is not an ester. The name fumarate can be confusing since both esters and carboxylates are both given the suffix -ate. See the following post for the difference in the molecular structures.

drug-pipeline-f13/topic21253.html#p201134
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Re: NZ ms study

Postby Kronk » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:55 pm

You are correct, add to that the fact that only the esters can be absorbed by the body. I know gummy bears have a TON of Fumaric Acid in them as it adds a fruit like flavour. Still the link seems very interesting. I have been taking Psorex a psoriasis medicine for almost a year. It is a mono-ethyl form of fumaric acid. While there is no guarantee it performs like the real deal Tecifidera I pay $30 for a 100 capsule bottle. I have had my white blood counts tested and they were in a normal healthy range.
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