Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:12 pm

ok re dietary - spinach is good, but better boiled 1 min to increase nutrient density. you don't have to eat it plain - hide it in things.

today i've had about 100mg total mag from spinach, 50 from cabbage, 75 from sunflower seeds, and maybe 20 from tomatoes. plus two mag citrate pills.

i just had dinner and part of it was spaghetti sauce with a crap ton of frozen spinach cooked into it. family didn't notice it was even there. earlier today for snack i had one of these spinach pies - krinos filo twisters w spinach and feta.

last week i made a batch of lentil soup (lentils have magnesium on their own), had a ton of spinach in that too, again you couldn't tell by taste even though you could see it. you can add spinach to chili as well, there will be magnesium in the beans too. i also cut up blocks of frozen spinach into ice cube size blocks and to things like add it with red pepper and a bit of cheese, in morning eggs. working yams or sweet potatoes into the routine where you normally have regular potatoes can help as well. sometimes i mix them 50/50 if need a milder flavour than full on yam, but don't want plain potato either.

swiss chard is a great side with some butter and a splash of vinegar. it needs to be boiled for 3 mins and the water must be discarded. i usually have it whenever i'm having salmon for supper. With yam and/or potato :)

if you can manage a handful of trail mix with pumpkin seeds, cashews and sunflower seeds on a regular basis, that will provide magnesium and other goodies as well. if you add dark chocolate-covered dried gojis to the mix, you'll add yet another magnesium boost (mostly from the dark chocolate). all good stuff! just have to get it on the grocery list so that it's in the cupboards when you go looking :)

is your water regular tap? any chance of keeping a water bottle with you through the day, in case you'll drink some if it's there?

i remember your coffee topic. i would say if you're not good at hydration then coffee as a diuretic would probably be something to avoid even though it's a good shot of magnesium. might be an idea, if you can, to try to down a glass of water when you get up in the morning, before that first coffee.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby ElliotB » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:10 am

" I feel good in the morning and at night but usually get bogged down in fatigue in the afternoon."

Can you/do you take an afternoon nap? While I don't need them as much as I used to, I always at least try to take a nap in the afternoon. A 15-30 minute nap gives me hours of additional 'tiredless' time. The brain can get over stimulated through the course of the day and a nap does wonders!
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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby Luongo » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:57 pm

ElliotB wrote:" I feel good in the morning and at night but usually get bogged down in fatigue in the afternoon."

Can you/do you take an afternoon nap? While I don't need them as much as I used to, I always at least try to take a nap in the afternoon. A 15-30 minute nap gives me hours of additional 'tiredless' time. The brain can get over stimulated through the course of the day and a nap does wonders!


I've experimented with it but naps usually me feel worse. I don't know if I'm not getting into a deep enough sleep or something but I usually wake up groggy and nauseous from a nap without much more energy.

Thanks for the nutrition information. The current goals are to work on magnesium via diet, being better about staying hydrated, and doing some cardio instead of my current exercise routine of nothing at all.
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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby Scott1 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:45 pm

OK. So you eat Taco Bill, sleep badly and want to do Cardio to spark you up?

Lets just look at the sleeping. The purpose of sleep is to help you restore your energy levels, rebalance your metabolism and let your mind process the days events. Yet you wake up groggy and nauseous and no better in terms of energy.
How much sleep do you have? Do you train your body to go to bed at a certain time each day and get up at the regular time or is your sleeping pattern haphazard? Do you take the stress off in the evening with a few drinks before you sleep? Are you sedentary or moving around during the day? Are you overweight?
What do you do to feel better when you wake you up feeling so bad?
There are a lot of good ideas in these forums but I think a clearer picture of you will help keep the conversation on track.
Your original post was about which plan to follow and that is fine but a comment that naps make you feel worse tells more about you as opposed to what you want. Tell me about your typical day?

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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby ElliotB » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:47 pm

"I've experimented with it but naps usually me feel worse."

How long are you napping for. You need to keep them short, typically 15-30 minutes. Sometimes if I nap a lot longer, I do feel tired.
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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby Luongo » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:05 pm

Scott1 wrote:OK. So you eat Taco Bill, sleep badly and want to do Cardio to spark you up?

Lets just look at the sleeping. The purpose of sleep is to help you restore your energy levels, rebalance your metabolism and let your mind process the days events. Yet you wake up groggy and nauseous and no better in terms of energy.
How much sleep do you have? Do you train your body to go to bed at a certain time each day and get up at the regular time or is your sleeping pattern haphazard? Do you take the stress off in the evening with a few drinks before you sleep? Are you sedentary or moving around during the day? Are you overweight?
What do you do to feel better when you wake you up feeling so bad?
There are a lot of good ideas in these forums but I think a clearer picture of you will help keep the conversation on track.
Your original post was about which plan to follow and that is fine but a comment that naps make you feel worse tells more about you as opposed to what you want. Tell me about your typical day?

Regards


I don't sleep badly. When my symptoms first started years ago I had insomnia but it went away after a while. I've been sleeping fine for quite some time now (knock on wood). It's only if I nap in the afternoons that I don't feel great after I wake up. On a normal work day I'm fairly energized and awake when my alarm goes off at 6:30 AM until about noon-ish when I start to sag. I go to bed at about 10:30-11 every night. I admit I'm fairly sedentary when I'm not at work (basically 2 PM onwards) which is why incorporating some cardio is something I'm looking to do.

And let me be clear, naps have always made me feel groggy and nauseous... my entire life. From childhood to now, if I feel myself getting drowsy I fight like hell to stay awake because the tiredness and drowsiness is a preferable option to the post-nap feeling (in addition to having my normal night's sleep thrown off by more sleep).

I'm not overweight. Closer to underweight. 5 foot 6 inches and 120 lbs. My metabolism is ferocious. I firmly believe that has something to do with this.


ElliotB wrote:"I've experimented with it but naps usually me feel worse."

How long are you napping for. You need to keep them short, typically 15-30 minutes. Sometimes if I nap a lot longer, I do feel tired.


I don't really keep track, really. Just until I wake up. Will napping in the daytime put kinks in my normal sleep cycle? I have a good thing going now.
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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:13 pm

Thanks for the nutrition information. The current goals are to work on magnesium via diet, being better about staying hydrated, and doing some cardio instead of my current exercise routine of nothing at all.
no problem - goals sound good!

once those are sorted, my next question would be, what is your current zinc supplement product?
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby ElliotB » Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:28 pm

I typically sleep the same amount of hours during the course of a day, about 7 - it is just not always all at one time. If you have a good sleep cycle going now that you are happy with, don't change it.

I find that if I have an afternoon nap, I can stay awake until 10-11pm. Usually when I don't, I start getting tired around 8-8:30pm and I am usually in bed by 9-9:30pm. And I will often wake up in the middle of the night wide awake. So if I have a 15-30 minute nap in the afternoon, I get 2-3 extra hours of non-sleepy time and I am less likely to wake up in the middle of the night.
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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby Scott1 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:32 pm

Hi Again,
How you feel after a nap is interesting as is the need to have one. What are the tests you have had done and do you have the actual results? I see people say bloodwork a lot but I never can tell what that means.
Superficially, I would say you don't vasodilate properly and you don't make sufficient ATP but a full set of test results would say a lot. I have ideas about some of those issues as will others but being evidence based gives a better footing.

Regards

Regards
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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby Luongo » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:29 am

jimmylegs wrote:
Thanks for the nutrition information. The current goals are to work on magnesium via diet, being better about staying hydrated, and doing some cardio instead of my current exercise routine of nothing at all.
no problem - goals sound good!

once those are sorted, my next question would be, what is your current zinc supplement product?


This is the current one I have:

http://www.naturesbounty.com/product/002060

I take one 50 mg tab a day.

Scott1 wrote:Hi Again,
How you feel after a nap is interesting as is the need to have one. What are the tests you have had done and do you have the actual results? I see people say bloodwork a lot but I never can tell what that means.
Superficially, I would say you don't vasodilate properly and you don't make sufficient ATP but a full set of test results would say a lot. I have ideas about some of those issues as will others but being evidence based gives a better footing.

Regards

Regards


I have had more tests done than I can remember. Unfortunately it's been through a dozen or so docs/specialists over the last 4-5 years so I don't have all the individual pieces together. I just remember the broad strokes of Vitamin D, B12, constant dehydration, and the fact that my ACE is usually flagged.

I agree 100% with your assertion that I don't vasodilate properly. My fingers and extremities are prone to going all pins-and-needles extremely quickly and I have poor circulation. This was part of the reason cutting the coffee (in addition to just making me feel off, it's a vasoconstrictor) and starting regular cardio were goals of mine. I've never heard of ATP so I'm not sure about that.

I have a doctor's appointment this Friday (non-MS related) and I may need bloodwork. If you have suggestions on things I should ask for I would be happy to get it checked on if it comes up. Would taking supplements throw off the results?
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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby Scott1 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:53 pm

Hi,

There's a post here - regimens-f22/topic24019-165.html on the 8th Dec 2014 that might help explain ATP. You may also find some things of interest on the first page. It is all a bit technical and I'm sorry I wrote it like that.
Having had MS for a long time now I take the view that it has many layers. Some problems are obviously connected and some are harder to find common threads.
ATP is a basic requirement to release energy. No ATP=no energy. The respiration of cells, where they exchange sodium and potassium, metabolise fatty acids and utilize vitamins,minerals and nutrients needs to be kept functioning as normally as possible.
A good measure of how well you have those processes functioning is whether you have fatigue or not. I have avoided fatigue for a long time and didn't suffer from it through an attack that put me in hospital. It is why I can bounce back. What it also tells me is MS is driven by other factors but helping your cells to function properly will be critical to recovery.
There is more than one view on L-arginine in these pages. I take it to help me vasodilate. Just a teaspoon in water per day. If you take it along with l-carnitine or acetyl-L-Carnitine it will improve the vasodilation. (L-arginine - http://www.drugs.com/npp/l-arginine.html)
By all means exercise but try to ensure you are making energy properly first. Exertion with a flat battery probably does more harm than good as you are just straining. Stretching exercises can be very enjoyable and effective without nearly killing yourself.
Two tests that I like are a fasting amino acid test and a uric acid test. If you are depleted in some amino acids then you can work out whether you need essential (you eat them) or nonessential (you make them) amino acid augmentation. Low levels can indicate an infection or a metabolic disturbance. Uric acid is the final step in the metabolizing of purines. If it is low then it is a clear sign that you will not be making enough ATP and your energy will be compromised.
I honestly don't know if short term use of supplements makes a difference. Testing without using them would make sense but it depends on what you're testing.

Regards
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Re: Overwhelmed with nutritional/vitamin information

Postby DrGeoff » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:04 pm

Another way to make spinach interesting is to steam it very lightly (just wilt it - baby leaves are best) and then use it as a bed for something else.
Tuna or salmon steaks, scallops, all look good on top of a modest serving of spinach.
Looks impressive, costs peanuts, takes seconds.
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