Value of CRABs

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Value of CRABs

Postby bromley » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:56 am

The UK health system is very different from the US - all services (operations etc) are free. No insurance claims etc.

When the CRAB drugs were introduced their cost-effectiveness was questioned. The National Health Service buys all the drugs before distributing them to patients and set up a risk sharing scheme with the CRAB companies. The effectiveness of the CRAB drugs are being monitored and if after ten years are shown not be effective (or as effective as claimed) the NHS gets money back.

This article appeared ion the BBC today.

Ian

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5224200.stm
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Re: Value of CRABs

Postby HarryZ » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:09 am

Ian,

bromley wrote:The UK health system is very different from the US - all services (operations etc) are free. No insurance claims etc.


UK health free?....the next time you go and purchase something and look at the amount of the VAT on it, think where a percentage of that tax is going. :) A lot of people in Canada say that our health care is free as well but in the long run, we all pay for it in some manner.

Many drugs in Canada, like in the UK, are purchased from the pharmaceuticals by the Federal Government. They negotiate prices that are far less than what the people in the US have to pay for their drugs. And the drug companies can't just simply raise the price of a drug here without showing just cause as to why the price is going up.

For many months we have discussed how the MS drug companies operate and how they try and control the world of MS medicine. Your info of what has happened at Sheffield University is yet another example of how this takes place. Changing control of this study from the university academics to the very companies who sell the drug half way through doesn't make sense at all....unless of course you have a ve$ted intere$t in the outcome.

A few years ago Dr. Behan's report on the cost vs benefit of the CRAB drugs seriously questioned this very question. Perhaps he was on the track after all.

Take care and thanks for posting this interesting bit of information.

Harry
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Postby bromley » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:50 am

Harry,

Our (the UK) health system is paid out of general taxation. But there is no charge for visiting a GP, consultant or staying in hospital.

So I get my Rebif, MS nurse. sessions with the neuro and sessions with the physio free in the sense that I do not pay for them directly.

And if you are old or unemployed you get the same free service. So for those who do not pay taxes the system is free. The system has its faults but generally works very well - in particular for emergencies.

Ian
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Postby HarryZ » Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:39 am

Ian,

Our (the UK) health system is paid out of general taxation. But there is no charge for visiting a GP, consultant or staying in hospital.


It's pretty much the same here but from I understand our system is a bit more flexible. And it gets funded through our taxes as well.

Harry
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Postby sh8un » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:07 am

I personally would gladly pay more taxes if it means that all people can have access to the medical system whenever they need it. Right now, believe me i pay a lot. I think death is one of the scariest things in the world and most people would do pretty much anything to avoid it. I would even pay more taxes if it meant things in the hospital would improve a little. In Calgary right now things are pretty bad because even though we have a surplus for the province, our premier decides to give every Albertan $400 instead of putting it into building more hospitals or other important things. Calgary is growing fast and we only have 3 hospitals and 1 very small children's hospital. We are building a new children's. The premier wants to make things look so bad that desperate people would happily go along with his plan to privatize health care or part of it anyway. Currently people are having miscarriages in the waiting rooms of the ER. Pretty sad I would say. That should not be happening in the richest province in Canada but it is because the money from the taxes is just not going to the right places. People always say they hate paying taxes until they actually get sick and then they realize that they would gladly yell at Ralph to be a little wiser with his spending. Money can’t buy you friends Premier.Taxes are good when they are spent properly
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Postby Lyon » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:22 am

oo
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Postby amelia » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:11 pm

I don't much about gov't paid health care, but I can tell you how it is in the US to not have it, or depend soley on Medicare. When Gary applied for disability the first time, he had to wait 2 years for Medicare. We had some,very little, money tied up on a loan and owned a luxurious house trailer with 2 paid for cars, so we were too rich for Medicaid. When you don't have insurance here many specialists will not let you in their door. That includes MOST Neuros. You are treated very different and can't get the medicine you need, nor the medical aids such as wheelchairs and such. His MS was at it's worst during all this time. I hurt my back often trying to manuver him around. He was paralyzed from the neck down over 6 times in 2 years. Our medical situation is not much better today except he does get Medicare which opens many doors otherwise shut. I can't work an outside job because of the care he needs, but yet I don't qualify for ANY gov't help. You see, I started my own art business which after many years is supplying me with some insurance. Of course, the people who control the medical insurance will NOT insure anyone who needs it, like Gary. So I don't know much about the UK or Canada, but the US medical system AIN'T working. I know more people without insurance than with it.
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Postby sh8un » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:56 pm

I only know very little about the insurance in the US (that's why I am planning to move there) and I often wonder why people don't stand up and say they want a public healthcare. I know that it's great for the rich. They get the best treatment whenever they want it but the middle class and the poor suffer. This jsystem just ends up costing more anyways because the ER ( I don't think can deny patients and the patients can't offord to pay). I would think that the hospital would then have to take the hit. Some how though, this system has survived in the US. I know Amelia that if you were in Canada things would be a lot different. You would get the help you need at home for free. It might not be 24/7 care depending on your situation but you would get help. I am sorry to hear about your situation but happy that you finally have medicare. I guess the richer you are the more greedy you become. I should read up more about the US system.
NN
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Postby Lyon » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:14 pm

oo
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Postby sh8un » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:34 pm

Lyon,
You are so right about the fact that some ppl only realize how bad it is when they are in need of healthcare. I feel horrible for the person you described. If only things were up to me :? It is really scary for me to move there because I know that no one would want to insure me. I will have coverage from work once I actually start working but who knows when that will be. I have a feeling that I might have to leave my California dreams and go to Vancouver afterall. Not that there is anything wrong with Vancouver. I will give Cali a year and will try to find out more info. once I am there in Aug. I hope that things will get better in the US in terms of insurance. Of course it will be a long time before it does change.
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Postby HarryZ » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:58 pm

Bob,

I'm not sure I like the cost/effectiveness aspect of it though. For someone with a disease which effective but very expensive medicine is offered, they might find themselves out of luck.


I believe the UK health system has always done that because they have to ensure that the money being spent on drugs or any other medical service is well used.

The CRABs are very expensive...over-priced in my opinion. The debate among medical people of just how effective these drugs are has been around for a while. Most of us have read the various opinions about them. The UK medical system has to be convinced that the huge amount of money being spent on the CRABs is justified with an acceptable level of efficacy.

I think that with the Sheffield docs controlling the information, a proper answer could have been determined. But now that they have switched to the drug company people pulling the strings one can imagine that the results are already determined.

If would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Sheffield stated that the drugs were too costly and benefit too little and recommended to the NHS that government funding for the CRABs be stopped. Would the MS pharmas significantly reduce the price at this point or would they simply leave town!

Harry
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Postby Lyon » Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:59 pm

oo
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Postby sh8un » Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:13 pm

Hey Lyon
We do have public health care in Canada. I am just thinking about moving to California and that's where I won't have coverage. Iy may not be the wisest move but you gotta live life. I'll deal with things as they come I guess.
NN
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Postby Lyon » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:11 pm

oo
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Postby Lyon » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:15 pm

oo
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