Thiamine/Klenner Protocol

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Thiamine/Klenner Protocol

Postby ljm » Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:51 pm

During routine visit to new GP (since I've changed cities) I reviewed current supplements:: he is willing to show me how to self inject vitB12, that seems like a good idea:: we also discussed self inject thiamine and I wanted to know if anyone is doing that.

Thiamine does NOT seem as well supported as other supplements (ex VitD, B12, Omega3 are now so standard that even MS clinic recommended them...). Thiamine injections are included in protocol from Dr. F Klenner that I've seen mentioned a number of times (www.tldp.com/issue/11_00/klenner.htm) and I happened to meet a man who had followed it for 20 years and was a strong advocate. Thiamine has been researched in parkinsons and alzheimer's.

So...does anyone have an opinion? I'm taking all B vitamins (with emphasis on B12, niacin, folic), so, this is specifically a question about mega dose/injection approach
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Postby CureOrBust » Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:07 pm

Boy, these guys dont mess about with their words...
We categorically make this statement: Any victim of Multiple Sclerosis ... can be cured with the adequate employment of Thiamin Hydrochloride and other factors of the Vitamin B Complex in conjunction with ...

I hate needles, but am currently on a burst of high dosage of sustained release B complex tablets (along with other things). I *think* I have noticed a difference when I have taken twice the recommended dosages. Thiamine is of course in the tablets; 50mg and i take 2-5 a day, so nowhere near what these guys are suggesting.
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Postby CureOrBust » Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:14 pm

the following URL has a lot of general info re overdosage of B vitamins.
http://www.acu-cell.com/bx2.html

I thought i better check for my own good.
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go klenner go!

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:36 am

i love the klenner protocol. first time i tried even the lame modified protocol was when i saw my best jump in sensory condition and was able to type again in an hour. rock on, klenner, i'm a fan!
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Postby ljm » Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:55 pm

Jimmy, so, you're injecting thiamine and liver extract?
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didn't say that, did i

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:14 am

nope here is the full thing http://www.townsendletter.com/Klenner/klenner4.htm
but my
lame modified protocol
is not quite the same. here is a trimmed down version of the protocol with my revisions, which involve taking everything in oral pill form:

1) Thiamin hydrochloride: 300mg to 500mg, 30 minutes before meals and bed hour, and during the night if awake. (i do 300 mg per day)

2) Niacin (nicotinic acid): We recommend 100mg to 3 grams, thirty minutes before meals and at bed hour, and also during the night if awake – whichever dose will produce a strong body flush. (usually 200mg per day. i get a decent flush off 200mg but have taken as much as a gram, lobsterdom is kinda funny)

3) Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6): 100mg to 200mg is given before meals and bed hour. At least 100mg daily is given intramuscularly. (i do 100mg per day)

4) Cobalamin (Vitamin B12): 1000mcg. is given three times each week by needle (repository type). (i do 1000mcg per day sublingual tablet)

5) Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C): Ten to twenty grams should be taken daily by mouth in divided doses. (i get two grams in if i'm lucky from pills, but get a lot in my diet too)

6) Riboflavin (Vitamin B2): 40mg to 80mg given daily by needle IM; 25 mg. before meals and bedtime. (i take 100mg per day)

7) Vitamin E as d-alpha tocopherol acetate of d-alpha tocopherol acid succinate. (i was on 800 but the doc told me to cut back to 400 per day. i am considering going back on 800 for a month or so)

8) Crude liver: Degenerative changes brought on by other factors, therefore, can also be benefited by daily injections of crude liver. (i decided this benefit would be related to uric acid which is not really a problem in my case and this sounds the quackiest anyway)

9) Adenosine-5-Monophosphoric acid: By adding this to our treatment, we enhance all chemistry dealing with cell metabolism. (they don't give a dosage. i interpreted this as inosine, but found that my uric acid was okay so i never bothered tracking any down)

10) Choline: Choline is a structural component of fat and nerve tissue, thus has a strong relationship to the phospholipids and to its acetyl ester. We give 700mg to 1400mg after each meal and at bed hour. (i haven't gotten into this yet)

11) Lecithin: We give 1200 mg. Soybean Lecithin after each meal. (used to, haven't in a while)

12) Magnesium: 100mg. after each meal to supply additional ions for muscle activity. It is an enzyme activator. (take about 300mg/day at the moment, in a liquid form)

13) Calcium Gluconate (10 grain tablets): We give two tablets after each meal and at bed hour to supplement dietary intake for muscle activity. At times, this is given intravenously, one gram twice weekly. (don't know about this haven't researched it yet)

14) Calcium pantothenate: We give 200 mg. after each meal and at bed hour. (think this is b5, take 100mg per day)

15) Aminoacetic acid (glycine): One heaping tablespoon of the powder in a glass of milk four times each day. Much of the oral medication can be taken with this drink. (i haven't investigated this yet)

16) Make certain that the hemoglobin is at least 13 grams. (think i'm okay here)

17) High protein diet with two to three eggs for breakfast. (i have two eggs every other day against my naturopath's advice to have two eggs per week)

18) One Theragram-M cap. daily for trace minerals. (i take a multimineral)

19) Dantrium has value for relieving intentional tremor and Symmetrel for relieving stiffness in Multiple Sclerosis. Dose must be individualized. (no idea about this yet)

20) Zinc gluconate: 10 mg. three times each day has some value in Myasthenia Gravis. Take several hours after vitamin B2. (i take a zinc pill after food at a different time of day from everything else)

also i take other things because i know i'm deficient eg iron.
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didn't say that, did i

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:15 am

duplicate post deleted
Last edited by jimmylegs on Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ljm » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:40 pm

Yeah, thats the same article from my first post, and I'm taking the same basic stuff (a good B complex and additional niacin and sublingual B12). But I was wondering if anyone is INJECTING B12 or Thiamine.
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injecty

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:38 pm

neh, not me, sorry. i talked over injecting the methylcobalamin with a couple of my docs and figured the absorption would be okay with the sublingual. probably would be better to inject the thiamine though. i think it's really hard to absorb.
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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:22 am

If you ask amongst the people on the abx's, a few are or have injected b12 as part of that regimine. But i cant recall anyone on thiamine injections.
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Postby CureOrBust » Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:29 am

I did a little reading about the "niacin flush" today. The "flush" apparently is believed to be caused by a rush of histamine to the skin. I found this an interesting co-incidence considering prokarin is also based on histamine.

Sorry, it still doesnt answer your question about anyone injecting thiamine.
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royal flush

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:30 am

i like the flush. i imagine it carrying a rush of goodies to the sites of healing, and just generally cleaning out the pipes. i did it by accident with a new b-complex the first time, and scared the bejaysus outta myself until i read the fine print. next time i ran into the notion i did the research and started doing the flush on purpose. now it's fun, at least ppl always get a laugh at the lobster!
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Postby ljm » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:54 pm

Yeah, I like the flush as well. Cureo, you probably already know, niacin also lowers cholesterol, I'm not sure exactly how that works. On topic of vitBs...jimmy...are you finding thiamine has any impact on sleep? Your post said you take 'more' if you wake up at night? Thanks in advance for any comment you can provide on that...
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Postby CureOrBust » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:32 am

I had never noticed a flush from my B complex (50mg), which i have taken 2 at once before. I bought some 100mg after reading the protocol. Last night i tried 200mg, tentively. I *think* my ears got a little warm, but i was wearing earphones. So tonight, i tried 500mg. BOY it burned. It was not pleasant. They also talk of itching, but thats not how i would describe it.

jimmylegs wrote:I like the flush. i imagine it carrying a rush of goodies to the sites of healing, and just generally cleaning out the pipes

From what i read around the internet, it causes a rush of histamine to the skin only. Also from what i read, if the histamine went to your lungs (or other organs), it would cause major problems.

I tried measuring my body temp, while under "the flush". Last night it was about normal for me. And tonight, if anything, it was a tiny bit low for me if anything. I dont know what that would mean, if anything.

ljm wrote:niacin also lowers cholesterol

Yeah, i forgot about that "commonality" from my original internet read, in that statins also are for cholesterol. Although i did read a lot of stuff over the confusion of which variation of niacin actually reduces cholesterol; i cant remember which now, my father is on it because his liver did badly on lipitor.
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niacin and thiamine

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:55 am

hey that's interesting about the histamine thing.

about the take more if you wake up at night thing, that is from the protocol and the comments in brackets are my details. i don't actually take more at night and the only reason i tend to wake up is to go to the toilet.

about the niacin/statin thing, ya b3 is a good way to deal with cholesterol and the first i ever heard of statins was to do with cholesterol it was interesting news to me to see it in use for ms.

ya the burning, it's kind of a spiky, prickly thing isn't it, i think that's sort of what they mean by itching.
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