MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

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MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby THX1138 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:19 am

This new topic is where I will be discussing an older topic called "Niacin B3" http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic23200.html
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby THX1138 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:32 am

It would be great to hear of other people's improvements with the niacin flush.
So what's yours :?:

THX1138 wrote:Below are a few old posts of mine:


Niacin has lead me on a path to increase my blood flow.

I have found that when I get a STRONG niacin flush, my walking improves greatly (a night and day difference.)
By a "STRONG niacin flush" I mean one that goes all the way down to my toes. Weaker flushes are of little help.

My vision improves as well - more clarity and much better color saturation.

Too bad the niacin flush only lasts less than half an hour. So I am working on other ways to dilate my blood vessels. Both Magnesium and Vinpocetine are vasodilators and these are proving helpful.

If you think your magnesium level is fine because a doctor gave you a test that came out "normal" check this out:
The underestimated problem of using serum magnesium measurements to exclude magnesium deficiency in adults; a health warning is needed for "normal" results.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=a+warning+to+clinicians+magnesium

Good Luck

THX1138

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today I did a good magnesium oil treatment and about an hour later I drank a vitamin B3 (niacin) drink (my own recipe).

I drank it. In about 15 minutes...
The niacin flush was coming on strong; my skin was red, and I was amazingly full of energy.
Then I went for a walk. Right away it was obvious that the flush was really working.
My legs felt light and swung freely instead of the tight bound up feeling.
I was walking fairly well and it was easy to walk much faster than usual.

In total, I walked about 2 blocks (way farther than I can normally walk).

After about the first block, the niacin flush started to fade, and so did I. I should have started the walk earlier on in the flush, which lasted about 20 minutes. My condition was returning to normal. I was starting to think I might not make it home without falling. I made it though.


From then on, I was back to my usual low energy, stiff-walking self. It sure was reassuring, though, to see that I was able to walk well for at least a while. It had been several months since the last time my walking had transformed so much from the niacin flush.

So I continue to try to fix this obvious blood flow problem I have. Reconsideration October 2017: Sometimes I wonder if blood flow is really the issue or if it's something else. But I'm leaning toward the blood flow idea.


Anyone else ever have a similar experience??

Thanks,
THX1138


I have made a distinction about how the niacin flush works with me: I've noticed that the flush (warmth) starts on my head and I feel a little bit of tingles there. And it starts moving down my body, finally ending up at my feet or toes. My head goes from feeling warm to feeling at least (relatively) cool and clear, with apparently a total absence of the all-too-frequent feeling of mild warmth and fullness. While my head is warm I don't notice much improvement in my ms symptoms. When the flush gets down to my legs or feet, that's when I noticed the walking improvement and clear, lively (sometimes somewhat hyper) thinking; that's when I feel wonderfully alive and my senses seem so much more crisp and detailed.

It would be great to hear of other people's improvements with the niacin flush.
So what's yours :?:
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby THX1138 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:33 am

THX1138, how much Niacin are you taking and how often do you take it?
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby THX1138 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:34 am

THX1138 wrote:For the past few years I've taken niacin less than once a month. But I've started doing it more often recently, but still less than once a week.. When I do take niacin, I take 500 mg of standard (Nicotinic Acid) niacin, preferably on an empty stomach. In the walking experience that I mentioned above, I took 500 mg of niacin (Nicotinic Acid) and mixed with liquid. I opened a 500 mg capsule of standard niacin (Nicotinic Acid) and mixed this with juice. I also mix an equal amount of vitamin C with the niacin drink because a nutritionally oriented nurse told me that that is liver protective. I find that if I drink a liquid niacin mixture, the flush comes on much sooner (in less than 10 minutes.

Keep in mind that some people find the niacin flush experience very unpleasant. You can read about that above. For me and many others, the experience is, at worst, a bit annoying. While some say the niacin flush makes their skin feel like it's on fire, for me, my skin just gets warm and pink/red.

I find, if I take niacin daily, the flush gets weaker after a few days. From what I've read and experienced, it's not possible to have daily, repeated strong niacin flushes without taking a break from the niacin for a few days.
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby THX1138 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:43 am

Post subject: CNS Vasodilation - Relief by flush general-discussion-f1/topic24029.html
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby THX1138 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:48 am

(11) Hazel Young says:
Twenty-five years ago I was diagnosed with primary progressive MS. A year later I had all invisible signs of multiple sclerosis and I was walking with a cane. It often felt as if I were walking underwater. Going up and down stairs was almost impossible. In desperation, I began taking massive doses of vitamins. One of these was niacin.

Upon taking the niacin I would develop the “niacin flush” which would last for about twenty minutes. As I felt the blood rushing throughout my body, for that glorious twenty minutes, I would feel the MS lifting from my body. I would run up and down stairs, stairs I couldn‘t navigate five minutes before. I would grab my husband’s hand and we would walk around the block (yes, without my cane). We would put on our favourite record and dance like we hadn’t done in more than a year. Then the flush would disappear and the MS would take over my body once again.

No doctor has ever been able to explain why the niacin flush had this effect on me, but I always knew it had something to do with blood flow. As this niacin website states: “Niacin causes the capillaries in your body to get bigger…capillaries are the main way for your body to rid itself of toxins.”
http://www.mens-total-fitness.com/niacin-flush.html

When I watched Dr. Zamboni’s Liberation Treatment on television it finally felt like maybe there was a connection.
This post from Hazel Young used to be available at http://ms.about.com/b/2009/12/01/ccsvi-and-multiple-sclerosis.htm but has been replaced with something else :?: :?: :?:
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby ElliotB » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:48 am

I have been taking about 1000mg of Niacin daily (500mg in the am and 500mg in the pm) as well as about 300mg daily of NAD (Nicotinamide Riboside) for about a year. I am doing well but have never experienced a 'flush'.
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:30 pm

so it's obviously not niacinAMIDE or something like that? bc otherwise that sounds like a missing cofactor for sure.
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby THX1138 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:34 pm

jimmylegs wrote:so it's obviously not niacinAMIDE or something like that? bc otherwise that sounds like a missing cofactor for sure.
:?: :?:
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby THX1138 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:22 am

Did you know that there is a US government approved patent for a natural ‘cure’ for multiple sclerosis? Yes, it’s true. The patent includes niacin, otherwise known as vitamin B3, and was granted in 2004.
http://50shadesofsun.com/natural-cure-for-ms-was-patented-in-usa/

https://www.onlineholistichealth.com/niacin-and-multiple-sclerosis/

:?: :?:
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby ElliotB » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:42 am

jimmylegs, if you are referring to my comment, yes I am using pharmaceutical grade (pure) Niacinamide Powder (b3).

THX1138, thanks for those links, amazing indeed! I wonder why that information has been ignored...
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby THX1138 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:22 pm

I like the following explaination of the niacin flush:
It was the Vitamin B3, called niacin, in the nutritional yeast that caused this reaction in your body. This explanation of how niacin causes harmless flushing is copied from Men's Total Fitness website and also explains why some people increase their niacin to improve detoxification:
Niacin causes the capillaries (small blood vessels) in your body to get wider (bigger). The capillaries are usually extremely small and blood passes through them very slowly. The problem with this is that capillaries are the main way for your body to rid itself of toxins. Your arteries, in comparison, are much larger than capillaries and can carry more blood and at a faster rate, but they do not come near the majority of your body. Arteries are the "highways" of your body and capillaries are more like the small town road that you exit off of the highway from in order to get to your house. Your house, in this example, would be a cell somewhere in a remote part of your body that is full of toxins. Without sufficient blood flow (oxygen, and everything that comes along with it), this cell cannot rid itself of toxins. Now, imagine your city widening the road that goes by your house -- the traffic and speed limit would increase. The same is true for your capillaries. They will carry more blood, and at a faster rate. The end result is that your cells now have more blood to rid themselves of toxins throughout your body as the capillaries get wider.

Niacin causes the capillaries to get bigger, and the end result is the "flush". The increase in size of your capillaries causes, in some cases, a redness on your skin in the areas that it is occurring. This is the first part of niacin flush. The second reaction of niacin flush is the annoying, and sometimes painful itch that comes along with it. Niacin allows more blood to reach your cells to remove toxins from them. To help remove these toxins, the cells stimulate the body to release histamines, which cause the itch and signal more water, blood, and nutrients to the area.
http://www.mens-total-fitness.com/niacin-flush.html

This is a common reaction to a dose of niacin that your body isn't used to and is usually caused by niacin supplements or prescriptions (niacin is commonly used to lower cholesterol). You'll notice that after a certain, regular dose of niacin that eventually you won't get the niacin flush any more. Once you up the dosage, you may experience it again. So taking niacin regularly will actually help your body reduce this reaction rather than increase it.

Note that taking the antihistamines reduced the histamine response in your body, but had you not taken them the flush would have dissipated on its own.

I would continue to take nutritional yeast, but not in such a large quantity. Eating it regularly will help ensure you're getting the B vitamins you need. You can also make sure you're getting adequate Bs from a daily multi-vitamin. B vitamins (niacin is just one of the family of nutrients called B vitamins) are easily depleted by high refined carbohydrate and high sugar diets, alcohol, hormonal birth control, stress and aging, so it's important to ensure you're getting what you need.
https://www.baumancollege.org/forum/ind ... ic=10313.0
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby THX1138 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:01 pm

:-D :-D I just found this site and there's a lot of thought stimulating posts. :-D :-D
http://www.curezone.org/forums/search.asp?q=niacin+histamine&action=Find&f=815

and this page:
https://mycraterbrain.blogspot.com/2014/01/relief-by-flush-not-necessarily.html
What's interesting to me is that I learned in my research that, between 1946 and 1959, thousands of MS patients were treated with a central nervous system vasodilator in a kind of therapy called "relief by flush." Apparently, histamine vasodilation proved to offer many MS sufferers relief from acute "flares" and virtually every kind of symptom (see Ganesh & Stahnisch, 2013). Inconsistency in research, the death of the leading researcher, Hinton Jonez, and the distraction of new drug research seemed to pull attention away from these findings.


And this:

The Potential Role of Niacinamide (Vitamin B3) In Reducing One's MS Symptoms
Niacinamide (Vitamin B3) is an important nutrient for brain health. It is a key nutrient for mitochondria which are the powerhouse for brain cells. The mitochondria convert the energy which is stored in sugar into the energy which the cell can use to do is work in the form of ATP. An ample supply of Niacinamide makes the generation of ATP more efficient and reduces the level of toxic free radicals (a bi-product of making ATP).
Vitamin B3 or niacinamide has been shown to be beneficial in a number of autoimmune diseases Almost fifty years ago Dr. Kaufman used niacinamide to successfully reduce symptoms and improve function in patients with rheumatoid arthritis over fifty years ago. Twenty years ago Yamada reported that niacinamide reduces the severity and can even reverse early type 1 diabetes in mice. In 2006 Kaneko reported that using niacinamide was effective in preventing and reducing the severity of existing disease in the animal model of multiple sclerosis. However studies have not been published about humans using niacinamide to treat or prevent MS.
How does one get vitamin B3? It is possible to take vitamin B3 in supplement form. Niacin (a form of vitamin B3) has often been given to treat patients with low HDL cholesterol (good or protective cholesterol) and has been associated with flushing, headache and abnormalities in the liver with very high dosing. Niacinamide, another form of vitamin B3, has far fewer side effects, even at high doses. Food sources include tuna, salmon, liver and other organ meat, mushrooms and nutritional yeast.
In general obtaining nutrients through food is superior to using supplements. First, the body is unlikely to absorb toxic levels of the nutrient. Also when whole food is consumed, additional micronutrients which are beneficial to the body are usually present. Our understanding of clinical nutrition is still primitive. There are thousands of other useful micronutrients which have not been identified.
What doses have been used? The mouse study which showed reversal of the animal model of MS used 0.5 mg per kilogram. The niacin version of B3 has been used in doses between 500 and 5000 mg for treating cholesterol and rheumatoid arthritis. However because of the potential for problems with high doses (anything over 500 mg) it is important to have a physician monitor liver function through blood tests. It is likely that doses which have been used for treating high cholesterol would be an acceptable dose range when trying to reduce the severity or prevent the onset of multiple sclerosis symptoms.
Bottom line
Vitamin B3 in the form of niacinamide is a very important nutrient for brain health. Best food sources are wheat germ, mushrooms, organ meats, tuna and salmon. Supplements are another option. Doses over 500 mg a day should be monitored by a physician. Other conditions have been treated with doses as high as 5 grams per day.
Dr. Terry Wahls is an Associate Clinical Professor of Medicine, Roy J. and Lucille Carver College of Medicine University at the University of Iowa. She has a joint appointment with the Veterans Administration Medical Center and the University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics. She sees patients in the traumatic brain injury clinics and teaches residents and medical students in their internal medicine continuity clinics. She is the author of two audio books, Up from the Chair, and The Primer Never Written. She also lectures extensively about the use of nutrition and neuromuscular electrical stimulation to successfully treat secondary progressive multiple sclerosis. More information can be found at her web site - http://www.terrywahls.com
She can also be reached at terrywahls@gmail.com
Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/expert/Terry_Wahls/158762


Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/1759705
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:13 am

yes @elliot i was referring to your niacin intake comment. explains absent niacin flush handily without needing to dig in re pufas. i assume there's a rationale behind that choice.

for any new readers in this subject area, niacinamide is designed to prevent flushing, so you wouldn't expect a flush from any dose to my knowledge. if users are intentionally avoiding the niacin flush effect, good choice. if new to the niacin flush idea and interested, start slow. 500mg at once is pretty five alarm flush ime at least. i've never gone higher than 500mg at one time and i only did that once. niacin flushing was an early and short term intervention for me. i did it to help deliver nutrients to starved tissue and when reading about spinal nutrition i thought the flush could also be useful in that arena. however, once i got what i was going to get out of the klenner protocol (which took three days) after that i basically finished the bottles of various things i'd bought, and moved on to new parts of my learning curve.

i would never take niacin in the doses recommended by klenner http://www.townsendletter.com/Klenner/klenner4.htm (dates to 1971 after all, there are a few things which we know better about now) on a long term basis. esp since we also know that sustained use of high dose niacin is associated with liver damage. even though niacin may have merit as a natural equivalent to statin drugs to combat cholesterol. we need to do all we can to support liver health, not inadvertently cause damage. (recall that case of spontaneous ms remission after liver transplant).

Acute Liver Failure Secondary to Niacin Toxicity
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/cripe/2014/692530/

'details' are sketchy but it looks like this niacin impact may have been incurred over a relatively short time period, but in conjunction with longer term hepatotoxic intakes.
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: MS Symptom Improvement: Significant but temporary.

Postby ElliotB » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:43 am

THX1138, do you possibly have a link to the patent?

Jimmylegs, what type of Niacin produces the flush and at what dosage?
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