Can I have MS and Gout both?

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Can I have MS and Gout both?

Postby Taurus » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:05 pm

I have MS for last ten years. Due to constant pain and spascity in right hand, I got my uric levels tested which came out to be 7.5 [7.0 being upper limit]. I have read MS and gout are inverse to each other. pl comment. :?
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Re: Can I have MS and MS both?

Postby Scott1 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:15 pm

Hi,

That is a really interesting reading.

Yes, it's possible. Normally MS and low uric acid is the situation, however, you can influence it. For example, I had one incidence of gout (high uric acid ) when I was gutsing down valacyclovir to offset EBV. That drug is a purine nucleotide analogue so I was probably megadosing on purines. The same thing can happen if you have a heavy seafood diet as that is full of purines.

Uric acid is the final stage in the metabolism of purines. ( for egg heads the sequence is ATP-ADP-AMP-adenosine-inosine-hypoxanthine-xanthine -uric acid.)
There are lots of different reactions along the way so don't get too hung up on it.

What is supposed to happen is we have an adequate store of ATP/ADP in a fixed ratio that can be quickly called on when the body requires it. Not much is stored at any one time as ATP so the ability to make it is paramount. The fastest way is to make it from ADP as that just requires one phosphate molecule rather than a series of rate limited steps.

If you have MS and gout then back off the purine rich part of your diet to pull the purine level down a little (gout isn't funny) and look other processes in the body such as glycolisis (the sort of sugars you take in) , oxidative phosphorylation (are you getting enough CoQ10 and aceytl-l-carnitine), fatty acids (to supply electrons for the electron transport chain-avocado's a good one or are you killing the process with statins?) and creatine (meats, fruit, starches).

So absolutely you can influence your uric acid level through diet. Its just as important though, when you scratch something that you don't tear it to ribbons. So I'd back off the sources of purines and add more fruit, vegetables and meat(not fish).

Hope that helps.

Regards,
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Re: Can I have MS and MS both?

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:38 pm

hi and welcome. sorry to hear about your hand.

i have ms (dxd officially) and i also have had gout (self diagnosed) from excess consumption of oxalic acid as opposed to purine rich foods, manifested as debilitating foot pain and oddly, athlete's foot. re the self dx, all foot issues experienced had never occurred before this particular dietary aberration, and resolved permanently after diet corrections.

at first test my serum ua was spot on an ms average identified in research, ie 3.3. at one point it was down to 3.2 in spite of massive consumption of high purine foods. i didn't know i was in effect pumping purines into a broken cycle, and destroying my brain with ammonia byproducts in the process.

once i normalized serum zn, serum uric acid jumped to 4.7, which was amazing after years of struggling with the low level. (after correcting deficient zinc thereby firing up uric acid production, severely debilitating cognitive issues cleared up never to return).

se ua = 7 is well into gout risk range ie >6. which test results do you have on file besides serum uric acid? any info on serum b12? d3? magnesium?

in your case, and this is a real stretch given that you're brand new here and i am by no means a pro, i almost wonder if your zinc is not actually high, with possibly detrimental effects on iron and/or copper status. they'd have to have excluded copper deficiency to dx your ms, but maybe you can still dig in to find out if your copper status is truly ok. and maybe also if your high uric acid does indeed reflect high zinc status.

CNS demyelination associated with copper deficiency and hyperzincemia
http://www.neurology.org/content/59/9/1453.short

Copper deficiency: Acquired
http://neuromuscular.wustl.edu/nother/v ... htm#copper
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: Can I have MS and Gout both?

Postby lovebug » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:47 pm

Oh yes you can have Gout and MS !!! I am living proof. I actually was diagnosed with Gout several years earlier than my MS diagnosis. I have had surgeries now on my both big toes and possibly in the future surgeries on my both thumbs. I have extensive damage in my joints from years of Gout. All of my tests for Gout have always showed my levels to be within normal range! I have been on ULORIC for years as well. The pain just never stops for me ! Not even a break !
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Re: Can I have MS and Gout both?

Postby Taurus » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:42 am

I wish u sir quick healing and best wishes
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Re: Can I have MS and Gout both?

Postby Scott1 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:24 pm

Hi Lovebug,

The combination of drugs they gave me when I had gout was allopurinol, colgout and probenecid. It seemed to clear the crystals, probably through probenecid's action in the kidney.

Ultimately the problem resolved but I did have a contraindication with allopurinol vs the valacyclovir I was also taking. They work well together for about two days then it knocks the stuffing out of you.

I imagine you have tried the combination but I suggest it, just in case.

Regards,
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Re: Can I have MS and Gout both?

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:57 pm

interesting:

"The reference ranges for uric acid are as follows: Men: 2.5-8 mg/dL. Women: 1.9–7.5 mg/dL."
"Gout can occur where serum uric acid levels are as low as 6 mg/dL (~357 µmol/L)..." ie when 'normal'

The effects of vitamin C supplementation on serum concentrations of uric acid: Results of a randomized controlled trial (2005)
fft: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 21105/full

"Although hyperuricemia alone is not sufficient to cause gout, a dose-response relationship between serum uric acid and the risk of developing gout is well documented"

simplified study info here (full text link above points to details):

trial: 500 mg ascorbate/day

Table 2. ... mean change ... in serum concentrations of ascorbic acid and uric acid levels

Serum ascorbic acid, μmol/liter
...............................placebo...vit C
Baseline, mean ...........60.0.......64.4
Mean change (95% CI)......1.2.......21.3

Serum uric acid, mg/dl
Baseline, mean ............5.1.......5.2
Mean change (95% CI)....+0.09....−0.5

500mg of vit C per day is pretty modest; wonder what if anything 1000mg might accomplish???
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: Can I have MS and Gout both?

Postby lovebug » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:51 pm

Its been a long time JIMMYLEGS !!! Thank you for your help again.
How have you been doing with MS ?
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Re: Can I have MS and Gout both?

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:35 pm

haiiiii :D :D :D
all good over here! some permanent damage, associated limitations, i can deal :)
what have your serum UA results been typically, iima??
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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