Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

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Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby sam112233 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:47 pm

Hey all.

Succinic acid an organic acid in the krebs cycle which is in most cells in our body is a good treatment for MS, and 99% of all other diseases in world. When talking about any disease one of the main things to treat it is increase ATP production in the mitochondria. The bulk of our ATP is made, and used by muscles, second is brain/heart so succinic acid is especially good for treating diseases of these system as it directly makes ATP in the electron transport chain.

And also the amino acid threonine treats tight muscles/MS

Here is a folder full of info on succinic acid. Click download in the top right to download all of it. In the text file succinic acid info is a good overview of it. I will just copy paste the first two small paragraphs


Inside the mitochondria, succinate is one of the most prominent intermediates of the Krebs
cycle. Succinate oxidation in mitochondria provides the most powerful energy output per
unit time. Extra-mitochondrial succinate triggers a host of succinate receptor (SUCN1 or
GPR91)-mediated signaling pathways in many peripheral tissues including the hypothalamus. One of the actions of succinate is to stabilize the hypoxia and cellular stress conditions by inducing the transcriptional regulator HIF-1a. Through these actions, it is hypothesized that succinate has the potential to restore the gradual but significant loss in functions associated with cellular senescence and systemic aging

Succinate is an essential component of the Krebs or citric acid cycle and serves an electron donor in the production of fumaric acid and FADH2. It also has been shown to be a good "natural" antibiotic because of its relative acidic or caustic nature (high concentrations can even cause burns). Succinate supplements have been shown to help reduce the effects of hangovers by activating the degradation of acetaldehyde - a toxic byproduct of alcohol metabolism - into CO2 and H2O through aerobic metabolism. Succinic acid has been shown to stimulate neural system recovery and bolster the immune system. Claims have also been made that it boosts awareness, concentration and reflexes.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pdmu6o6tw4yi ... zT1la?dl=0


And a study on threonine for MS. When doctors study a natural compound, and find it to be effective, instead of touting its benefits sometimes they try to downplay it but they can't deny the data so they end up using double/triple/quadruple speak. See if you can spot it here:

To determine whether the naturally occurring amino acid threonine, a potential precursor for glycine biosynthesis in the spinal cord, has an effect on spasticity in multiple sclerosis, 26 ambulatory patients were entered into a randomized crossover trial. Threonine administered at a total daily dose of 7.5 g reduced signs of spasticity on clinical examination, although no symptomatic improvement could be detected by the examining physician or the patient. In contrast to the side effects of sedation and increased motor weakness associated with antispasticity drugs commonly used for the treatment of multiple sclerosis, no side effects or toxic effects of threonine were identified

These data indicate that modest suppression of the clin¬ ical signs of spasticity in a population of patients with MS was achieved with oral administration of threonine. De¬ spite this effect, no improvement in symptoms of spastic¬ ity or in global neurologic function was associated with therapy. While the clinical effects observed in this trial do not support the use of threonine in the treatment of MS, the clear reduction of spasticity scores in treated patients sug¬ gests that additional studies, employing higher daily dos¬ ages or combination therapies, may identify a therapeutic role for this amino acid in the treatment of this disease.

http://sci-hub.la/10.1001/archneur.1992.00530330045014
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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby Leonard » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:31 am

As MS patients, we suffer from a high oxidative stress on our cells caused by (EBV) viral infection of both systemic and innate immunity.

BG12 (Biogen), a fumaric acid derived from succinic acid, provides anti-oxidant properties and was offered for treatment of MS.

The acids helps flight oxidation in the Endoplasmatic Reticulum.

In general, endogeneous antioxidant enzymes are essential to defend against ROS.

Interestingly, saturated fatty acids and trans fatty acids inhibit the activity of antioxidant enzymes.

The end result is mitochondrial dysfunction and a lack of ATP production (ion pump energy failure, muscle spasticity).

A low saturated fat diet (<20 gr sat fat per day) as promoted by Roy Swank and as was demonstrated by him in a 34 year experiment with over 100 patients would seem to work directly to facilitate critical cellular antioxidant workings.









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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby sam112233 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:52 am

Methyl fumarate sucks because of the methanol addition. If someone with MS actually wanted to get better they could try succinic acid, fumaric acid, and threonine.
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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby NHE » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:02 am

Leonard wrote:BG12 (Biogen), a fumaric acid derived from succinic acid, provides anti-oxidant properties and was offered for treatment of MS.

BG-12 is dimethylfumarate and not fumaric acid. It is also a strong oxidant and not it an anti-oxidant.
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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby Scott1 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:14 am

Hi,

I'm not sure I would leap so fast into succinic acid. See http://www.hmdb.ca/metabolites/HMDB00254

Have a look at the role of argininosuccinate synthase and argininosuccinate lyase. It's Argininosuccinate lyase that splits Argininosuccinate into fumarate and arginine. The arginine utilises eNOS to make L-cittruline and Nitric Oxide. This means an impaired endothelium will limit nitrice oxide production.

Some tumor types downregulate argininosuccinate synthase expression producing an intrinsic dependence on extracellular arginine dependence. This is known as “arginine auxotrophy”. Tumors of this type include heptocellular carcinoma, malignant melanoma, malignant pleural mesothelioma, osteosarcoma, prostate and renal cancer.
I'm just not sure you should embrace succinic acid at this stage.

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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby sam112233 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:22 am

I'm not sure I would leap so fast into succinic acid?

Because it, and fumaric acid would hurt the profits of the pharma company you work for that sells methyl fumarate or some other competing, less effective treatment for disease?

We make 200g a day of succinic acid... it is safe as a supplement. I took 20g yesterday.

Your spouting of bio chemical nonsense was not logical, and made no sense so your credibility is now gone.

Succinic acid is a strong anti cancer agent- one of the best in the world.
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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby NHE » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:54 am

sam112233 wrote:Because it, and fumaric acid would hurt the profits of the pharma company you work for that sells methyl fumarate or some other competing, less effective treatment for disease?

Accusing people you disagree with of being shills for pharma is laughable.
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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby sam112233 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:59 am

It may be laughable however it is not as laughable as the other persons argument against succinic/fumaric acid.
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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby Scott1 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:14 pm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074183/

I do not work for any pharma, as you suggest. I'm just a simple man with MS.

I have, however, read a great deal and tried many things. What I do know is there are many pathways and the krebs cycle is key part. Nonetheless, a great deal happens in the cytosol and some of it interacts with the mitochondria. You can get unintended consequences and if you're lucky your body quickly tells. If not, then you can activate unintended pathways and not know for some time. As an example, look at the drugs that activate JCV and it becomes PML. Then, it is likely too late to recognise the error.
If you didn't know what I explained or what was said in the link I gave you (under metabolite identification) then I quote "Succinic acid has recently been identified as an oncometabolite or an endogenous, cancer causing metabolite."

The site is part of a $900m project supported by the Canadian Government. Not a pharma.

Perhaps you could better explain who you are and what lead you to this choice.
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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby sam112233 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:06 pm

Mutations in that enzyme cause a quantifiable disease. One of the things in blood that will be elevated is urea, and the patients have to be on a low protein/nitrogen diet or they can potentially die. So what in the heck does that have to do with MS?

You are clearly a pharma shill or a pharmacist or someone else who hates naturally occurring treatments to disease.

They provided no reference for the claim succinic acid causes caner, in fact the studies show the opposite- that it is one of the most potent anti oxidants, and chemotherapeutic agents there is.

Perhaps you could better explain who you are and what lead you to this choice.
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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby NHE » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:11 am

sam112233 wrote:You are clearly a pharma shill or a pharmacist or someone else who hates naturally occurring treatments to disease.


You know nothing of Scott or I. Scott is a valued member of our community. Continue these personal attacks at your own expense.

Arron wrote:Personal attacks, which can consist of slightly veiled innuendo or sarcastic comments aimed at the poster as opposed to the content of the post, are not tolerated at This is MS. We of course reserve the right to ban or suspend any member who violates this rule.
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Re: Threonine, and succinic acid as treatments

Postby sam112233 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:13 am

Whatever. I probably won't come back here much. Just thought I'd post the info in case someone else wanted to see it. Goodbye.
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