Disability, axonal degeneration

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Disability, axonal degeneration

Postby amelia » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:14 pm

I have been reading a little and understanding a little on this axonal degeneration and disability connection. Gary has lots of disability and little brain lesions, so it "fits" his MS. A few years ago they did a spinal MRI and a DR noted in a known area of attacks spinal atrophy. Which basically is shrinkage? I read in Lyon's article on another post about all of this except they were talking about the brain shrinking due to axonal degeneration. Am I understanding this correctly? Feel free to correct me. BTW, he had a full spine MRI just this morning. we won't know results until next Monday. We will keep you posted.
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Re: Disability, axonal degeneration

Postby Lyon » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:32 pm

oo
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Postby raven » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:31 pm

You are correct in assuming that atrophy means shrinkage. It is perhaps the scariest aspect of MS. Not for the faint hearted but there are comparitive MRI images here:

http://www.bioscience.org/2004/v9/af/1262/figures.htm

The atrophy is non-reversable according to current medical thinking as axons do not normally re-grow. However the advent of stem cell treatment may mean that some or all of the loss may be recovered.

Also some of the chemo regimes may promote axonal regeneration. I do know that my blood serum makes rat neurons grow which does not happen with healthy controls this is possibly due to the release of growth factors attempting to reconstitute the immune system.

Robin
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Postby gibbledygook » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:30 am

One of the only trials (v v small) on antibiotics in MS showed a reduction in parenchymal brain shrinkage of the abx group to that of the normal population compared with controls. Will try to dig it out in a few hours but have to dash to IVF scan.
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Postby Anecdote » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:20 am

Sarah to the rescue:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-1252-0.html

I have the complete paper if anyone is interested. Email me 8)
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby Lyon » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:09 pm

oo
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Postby raven » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:50 pm

Hi Bob

I'm not sure there is a 'standard' stem cell treatment unless you count the ACT fraudsters. You're right, he didn't give much away but I'm assuming that he's working on the premise that once the cells are injected into the blood stream they will find their own way, presumably guided by cytokine release. There is a bit of info on his research here:

http://www.mssociety.org.uk/research/news_in_research/neil_scolding.html

Robin
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Postby bromley » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:12 am

Lyon,

I think Professor Scolding's work is focused on replacing myelin with bone marrow stem cells. This will, it is hoped, save axons from degenerating. For those axons already broken, there is little hope of regenerating them (at this point in time). Here is the view of Professor Compston:

Related to this topic, Professor Compston was asked if axons could be replaced. Axons are the parts of nerve cells, covered in myelin, that carry messages to other nerve cells and which are damaged and/or destroyed by MS. He reported that whilst stem cells can be turned into nerve cells, connecting them together is the difficulty.


Here is a presentation given by Prof Scolding in April:


Professor Neil Scolding

Neil Scolding is Burden Professor and Director of the Institute of Clinical Neurosciences at Frenchay Hospital, University of Bristol. He has a clinical and research interest in the biology of multiple sclerosis and in particular in attempting to develop treatments designed to repair the brain and spinal cord in patients with disability from MS.

Stem cells – the current evidence and issues around such treatments
Stem cell research offers the potential for exciting developments in many areas of medicine, including in the treatment of MS. However, it is not an area without problems. Professor Scolding discussed the ethical issues associated with embryonic stem cell research and the medical hurdles that need to be overcome in producing safe and reliable treatments from adult stem cells. He also discussed the problems associated with press coverage of unproven treatments and how people with MS should explore the issues behind the headlines before seeking treatment. Professor Scolding also described how treatment with stem cells might be beneficial to people with MS and how the work that he and other researchers are doing now may eventually lead to treatments for people with MS.

http://www.mstrust.org.uk/downloads/scolding.mp3
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Postby amelia » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:59 am

Another big issue with third party stem cells, adult or embryotic, you have the chance of aquiring everything that stem cell has to offer in the gene pool. IF cancer or other diseases / disorders are preprogrammed in our genes, then they would probably be present in the stem cell. Correct?
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Postby Lyon » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:19 am

oo
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Postby amelia » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:38 pm

Gary got the results of his 2 MRIs today. VERY surprising results. NO lesions on the brain or the spine! In about 18 months times his body has done away with 5 lesions in the brain. This is not too surprising to us. He is one of the few that really has "clinical" MS. It just can't be anything else but this. Had it not been for the 5 old lesions in the brain previously, we would have gone along with his Neuro today. She, at first, started believing that he had another disease that affects the spine and optic nerve. ( I have read up on it before) Then she decided to put him through the TOUCH program. Really don't know what will transpire with that with the MRIs not showing lesions> We will see though. Another hurry up and wait for the TOUCH process to go through.
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Postby Lyon » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:37 pm

oo
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Postby amelia » Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:06 pm

His disability has remained stable with minor relapses with complete improvements. By complete, I mean back to what he was before the relapse. His Right Eye is beginning to see some, shadows with lights and darks. This is recent. He has been totally blind, No light no shadow, in that eye for years with a "pale" optic nerve, as noted by an eye doctor. The eye DR has recently seen some, very little, improvement with the optic nerve in that eye. We asked about the pale optic nerve and was told that it shows lack of good blood flow. The nerve is suppose to show pink. He has had some minor improvements since January 2006. that is when he stopped Copaxon altogether. Can't say if it was the copaxon removal or just something coinciding with each other.
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Postby Lyon » Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:20 pm

oo
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Postby amelia » Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:50 pm

I can blow all of your minds with Gary's MS. He has been far from typical from the start. A brief analyis:
Kicked in the head by a cow; Feb 1984
numbness / tingling in hands by April 1984
Loss of balance with exagerated numbness and tingling from neck down by May 1984
Exploratory surgery on spine in neck with only finding imflammation Aug 1984
When through many accidents with relapse causing paralysis from neck down until 1986 when he went into a remmission. Picked up a bridge timber, hurt his back, and it all started over in Nov 1993.
Now during all of this, very little has ever shown up on MRIs. He had 1 lesion in the neck region on MRI in 1994, but they stated it was questionable to the surgery that he had. they did a biopsy in 1984. When he lost complete vision 20/400, very little light was all he saw, they did an MRI on Brain and optic nerve. The DR's reply was, " it showed nothing, but something must be going on 'cause you are blind." He has had a spinal tap. Showed nothing. His MS has been, "it is / it ain't" for nearly 15 years. Finally they diagnosised him with clinical MS. There is much much more going on, but for the sake of space and time, I'll leave his medical history abbreviated. His aunt, a NP, told him yesterday that he has always been a unique case!
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