Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby vender » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:20 am

Yes sorry I have to do voice to text. Thank you for finding that information! I have a hard time looking at screens
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:24 am

ok. no worries. i am interested to learn what if any issues you may have with spasm in general, which could link to this idea of spasm being related to your lung issues and potentially also to the esophagus (all sorts of studies linking spasm to the motility stuff and tertiary yadda yadda mentioned in your report)

can i ask why you need the voice recog assist? how is your position sensory in your hands and fingers?
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby vender » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:53 am

I have bilateral internuclear ophthalmology. It makes it very difficult to see. And type. I also have pelvic floor dysfunction my muscles are in constant spasm. It never ends. My leg spasticity is horrible lately.
So spasticity yeah I'm familiar
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:04 am

ok i had not realized the voice recog use was related to the vision issues. i guess that means you do not type by feel!

all right let's dig in on this spasticity business. a very useful common denominator to explore. may i have some info re your routine meds, and supplements if any?
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:37 am

starting with the pelvic floor, for no particular reason, i found this tidbit so far:
Outcomes of a Comprehensive Nonsurgical Approach to Pelvic Floor Rehabilitation for Urinary Symptoms, Defecatory Dysfunction, and Pelvic Pain
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Br ... 7798ed.pdf

Patients were counseled to follow a strict bowel regimen (adjusting the dosage or timing of daily psyllium fiber and judicious use of magnesium hydroxide) even if their primary complaint was nondefecatory. The APN reviewed bowel complaints at each session and assisted the patient in altering the regimen if necessary. The patient was encouraged to adjust the dosage to achieve 1 bowel movement almost every morning without straining. This seemed to contribute to improved symptoms of pelvic pain, urinary urgency/frequency, and urge incontinence in many patients.


so in that case they used magnesium for laxative purposes (notably however, 'even if their primary complaint was nondefecatory'), but even with mag hydroxide as the chosen form (suitable where tissue absorption is not the main objective), it looks as if it managed to have some antispasmodic effects (eg relieving pain and urinary spasm) - in spite of the authors' apparent lack of recognition of its value for that purpose.
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby vender » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:47 am

I do not have any issues with my bowel or urinary. It is simply a stabbing pain never goes away because my pelvic floor is in constant constriction.
Meds
Baclofen Valium modafinil and Ocrevus infusion. And 50,000 vitamin D once a week. My vitamin D was super super low
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:59 am

hi to be clear i was not suggesting that there were bowel or urinary issues in your case - just that with or without bowel issues this study noted incidental relief of pelvic pain, associated with added mag hydroxide intake. there are transferable elements to consider. it's not likely that we'll find study after study that align exactly with your personal xp.
we can jigsaw puzzle pieces together though, and possibly come up with a meaningful strategy.

good to know re meds and vit d3. it's all coming together now :)
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:20 am

ok so baclofen. obviously a treatment for spasticity. eg for all these spastic diaphragm cases:
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en ... cups&btnG=

you likely know gabapentin is another one often employed where spasticity is a concern:
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en ... city&btnG=

and linking spasticity to magnesium status:

general-discussion-f1/topic29507.html#p250220
"Hiccups are involuntary, rhythmic, spasmodic contractions of the diaphragm. ... hiccups became frequent and severe enough to produce insomnia, anorexia, and weight loss. ... Laboratory investigations were as follows: .... magnesium 0.66 mmol/L ... gabapentin was further increased to 600 mg nightly, leading to the hiccups disappearing

way to go docs, throwing nothing but meds at this patient for fear of 'magnesium excess' (in dialysis context) when his serum mag levels are circling the drain :S

again i am not suggesting that hiccup issues (or dialysis) are part of your experience but that there could be a common underlying magnesium issue - perhaps one man's spastic diaphragm leads to hiccups, the other's leads to pneumothorax. will be back with another piece in a bit :) gotta work sometimes lol
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:42 am

okay one more then i'll get back to work haha

The effect of magnesium oral therapy on spasticity in a patient with multiple sclerosis
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8915/d ... 0e514e.pdf

"The effects of magnesium glycerophosphate oral therapy on spasticity was studied in a 35‐year‐old woman with severe spastic paraplegia resulting from multiple sclerosis (MS). We found a significant improvement in the spasticity after only 1 week from the onset of the treatment on the modified Ashworth scale, an improvement in the range of motion and in the measures of angles at resting position in lower limbs. No side‐effects were reported and there was no weakness in the arms during the treatment.
...
the main clinical feature was severe spastic paralysis with frequent spasms in the legs... she also had ... difficulty swallowing ... the spasticity of her legs was very high, with a score of 4 out of 5 in both sides on the modified Ashworth scale... neither physiotherapy nor baclofen nor tizanidien to the maximum tolerated doses were able to diminish the spasticity or the spasms in the legs ... on average, the spasticity was improved by 0.7 points (from 4.9 to 4.2). This improvement occured within 1 week and reached its maximum after 3 weeks. we did not notice any improvement when we increased the dose at the 42nd day from 100 to 150 mg elemental magnesium."

that one looks pretty relatable.
i don't know how she could have started with a score of 4, and then improved from 4.9 to 4.2 but whatever.
the stand out thing to my eye is that the modest improvements were accomplished via what looks like a laughably low supplemental dose. also, the chemical form is unfamiliar, compared to what we know at this point about which forms are best absorbed into tissue.
i guess to be fair this research was done almost 20 yrs ago...!
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby NHE » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:57 pm

jimmylegs wrote:i just found this. it's old but heads in the direction i'm leaning.

DIAPHRAGMATIC SPASM ASSOCIATED WITH RECURRENT LEFT PNEUMOTHORAX
http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/673510

Epidemiology of spontaneous pneumothorax in women
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f819/e ... 47176d.pdf
Rossi and Goplerud speculated that the development of catamenial pneumothorax is due to severe spasms of the bronchial pathways and pulmonary blood vessels from prostaglandin F2α

i don't know what catamenial means it just came up from the search on pneumothorax spasm


https://medical-dictionary.thefreedicti ... eumothorax

catamenial pneumothorax: pneumothorax occurring in young women during menstruation, usually on the right side.
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:34 am

interesting. makes sense given the usual application of prostaglandin F2α.
spasm being the potential source of pneumothorax is the takeaway puzzle piece for me, given vender's situation
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:56 am

follow-up question(s) for you v, re 50K vitamin d3 per week.
1. how low was super super low?
(don't blame you - i was not paying enough attention and my results went from bad last yr to worse earlier this yr)
2. have you had follow-up tests done since starting replacement therapy?
3. who said take 50K per week iima?
and lastly, i'm more than sure it's the case but to confirm,
4. no essential cofactor advice was given to go along with that d3?
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:52 pm

hey v i found a free mag sample link for the US (below). i like that you can uncheck the box for promotions messaging.

technically i think if anyone is going to bother trying a flavored liquid supplement product, that of the options i have seen, 'mag pop' is the higher quality choice in terms of max absorption into tissue, vs excretion resulting from other forms' laxative effects. that said, i am not having any luck so far, digging up a 'mag pop' sample link for the US.

in general i am not a fan of flavored liquid supplements, but hey a free sample is a free sample - and some ppl do like. eg those who dislike or have trouble with pills, and who don't mind added flavoring.

if you are interested though, this sample link is for a half decent product that *will* send to a US address:

http://naturalvitality.com/free-calm-samples/
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby Scott1 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:03 pm

Hi,

Was low dose Dantrium (2x25mg) tried for your symptoms ? It's not well understood by many doctors so you'd need to be clear about contraindications.

I have found it to be very effective. It is complementary with magnesium and baclofen. Initially it can make you feel weak so don't try it unless you're prepared to start a regular exercise regime. (pilates is perfect, not gym work)

Regards.
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Re: Trouble swallowing esophagus being pushed over?

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:27 pm

related TiMS 'case study' ;)

undiagnosed-f54/topic30075.html#p252963
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