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Postby Chris55 » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:33 pm

Thank you so much for this information! I will certainly give this a try next time I get a flare-up. They do not occur that often, thank goodness!

Whenever I would get a "case", I would take the antibiotics--and they would work. But just like you, it would come right back.

Now--do I think our immune systems are attacking us? I absolutely do not. Do I think the problem is the docs have no clue but they HAVE to find something--sure do! Never can they say, "Oh gee, we have no clue and we can't help you!'

Just my opinion, as they say...again, Thanks!
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questions for chris and LC

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:06 pm

chris do you know whether the antibiotics that you were prescribed for your symptoms included a pain killer? because that's what happened with me. i thought the problem was gone because of the antibiotics but what was really happening was that the painkiller would mask it and then once i was off the antibiotic-painkiller combo, the symptoms would "come back" when they were really there all along until i did the acidophilus routine and never took antibiotics again. and chris did you read in that abstract how acidophilus acts as an anti-inflammatory

LC, do you take lots of probiotics but still have this painful problem in addition to your insulin levels? i thought it was very interesting in the abstract i posted earlier, how acidophilus has been found to increase insulin sensitivity and also act as an anti-inflammatory. where are you i want you to get back on this thread!

legs
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lyon

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:09 pm

bob i got lost in the acidophilus digression. yea okay i'll put up with the christmas cheer as long as it doesn't take bromley out of action okay? hehehe

legs
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Just started acidophilus today

Postby lyndacarol » Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:58 pm

I'm here again now, Legs.

I found the info in that abstract very interesting--so much so that I got some today and have started it. Now we'll see....

I have a tray of supplements that I dole out each day, but have not been taking any probiotics. I respect your opinions so much--I expect great improvements in my urinary tract problems! It is certainly worth a try!

I'll let you know how it goes.
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yay!

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:50 pm

hey that's great LC keep me posted!! i hope it sorts you out pronto, you've had to deal with it for waaaay too long!
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Postby Chris55 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:07 am

Legs--I don't think my antibiotic had any pain killer. What it did have is sulphur, common treatment in bladder infections. Why it helps, I have no idea???

As I said, I will definitely try your probiotics should I ever have another one--which I hope I don't and which I know I will--LOL! Thanks again for the info.
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sulphur

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:55 am

hmm interesting about the sulphur, i have no idea either. well anyway, i hope it works for you if the unfortunate event of another episode occurs!
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Postby BioDocFL » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:35 am

Sulphur could be useful in at least two ways.
1. It is a component of the amino acid methionine and methionine is used in the methylation of DNA and histones. Methylation helps suppress some gene activity and it helps differentiate your own DNA from foreign (bacterial) DNA. Animals (including humans) methylate cytosine in their DNA while bacteria methylate adenosine in their DNA.
2. It is a component of the amino acid cysteine. Two different cysteines in two different proteins or in two different spots in the same protein can crosslink via their sulphur atoms. This helps stabilize intra-protein folding and inter-protein interactions. Stabilizing proteins as they should be might help the cell and immune system recognize proteins for what they are supposed to be: self or foreign, normal or abnormal.
So, the point is (since onions have sulphur):
'eat a raw onion a day, helps keep the doctor away!'
if I can copy a phrase about apples.

Wesley
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sulphur question

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:12 am

ewww, a raw onion! so you're saying i gather, doc, that sulphur can help deal with bacteria, or help the body's immune system recognize itself so there is no autoimmune scenario.

my question is, could sulphur be altering the immune system so that it wouldn't react as strongly to inflammation of self? would an anti-inflammatory product be coming at the immune system issue from the other direction perchance?
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DELETE

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:15 am

DUPLICATE POST
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Anyone else tried Vonner Health?

Postby Deannaruth » Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:07 pm

Just wondering if anyone else has tried what Netherlands daughter tried?
My sis has MS and very bad off and would like to have more ammunition to get her to try them.
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vonner/hegsii

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:15 pm

hey there, i have not signed up with them (yet) but i treat myself with supplements and it's okay so far! is your sis averse to taking pills, or just to investing the money? wish i could help with some ammunition because i think chris's daughter's success is a great story and could be repeated for others. my only problem is i can't find that hegsii research represented anywhere online. if i could have, i might already be on the program!
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Postby Chris55 » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:33 pm

First--Jimmylegs, go to "Vonnerhealth.com". That's Dr. B's website (the doctor who is providing the supplements to my daughter.) Deannaruth--I am "Netherlands" mother. She continues to do very well. As I said, the real test is going to be her MS doctor visit in Feb. and her annual MRI. Suzy, my daughter, is SO positive it's almost frightening sometimes! And she is doing so well. She lives out-of-town, and everytime I get to see her, all I see is that beautiful, glowing, "healthy" face! I have missed her so!

BTW, I inhabit another website provided by a lady who has completely controlled her MS with nothing but nutrition, exercise, stress-reducers, etc. I actually just received her latest update--her first since she tragically lost her 42 year-old son to lung cancer. I am going to share it in case anyone might be interested. I also just talked to my daughter about adopting a healthy lifestyle now that she actually FEELS like investing in her overall health. She already started! Anyway, here's the post from Betty:

Do Lifestyle Changes Really Help Your MS?
First let me establish that I include DIET, EXERCISE, SUPPLEMENTS and STRESS REDUCTION as elements in this category of lifestyle changes. Which element is most important? I HAVE NO IDEA! All I know for sure is that together they work. I also believe that for some the diet is most important, while for others the exercise seems to play a more important role. And for some the supplements may be the most important.
It is 12-1/2 years since I was diagnosed, and I have experienced no progression at all since I began these lifestyle changes. Remember that I was diagnosed with Primary Progressive (PP) MS, which is supposed to continue to gradually progress, usually at a rapid rate. For anyone to have PP MS and experience no progression over a 11 to 12-year period, as I have, is very unusual. Neurologists who have seen me just shake their heads and say, whatever you are doing it is obviously working...just keep doing it! Just today I saw my primary care physician for something minor, and he looked at my record and noted that I hadn't seen him since June of 2005. He said to me, you must be the healthiest patient I have!
DIET: Most alternative health care physicians today recommend that EVERYONE eliminate processed (convenience) foods as well as white flour, sugar, and animal fats, and anything made from them, from their diet. By doing that alone you are better than half way to the suggested restrictions of the so-called Best Bet Diet for MS. I often suggest to people who are having a difficult time with the diet that they first become comfortable with eliminating white flour, sugar and animal fats.
Remember that your body is designed to be self-healing, and if diet revision does nothing else for us it most certainly will help us live a longer and healthier life. And the healthier we are the better chance our body has of resisting the tendency of what doctor's call Multiple Sclerosis to progress.
EXERCISE: It is my firm belief and observation that no one can prevent MS from progressing without a good, consistent exercise program. I also believe that program should consist primarily of stretching, deep breathing, and strength building exercise to whatever degree we are able.
The reason I use and recommend Shoosh Crotzer's Yoga for MS video/DVD program is that it has been so beneficial for me. Shoosh has modified Hatha Yoga for use by people with limited mobility, and it is, I believe, THE ideal program for MS. The oft-repeated phrase, "Use It Or Lose It" certainly applies to the person with MS.
SUPPLEMENTS: There are really only three supplements that we absolutely know scientifically are beneficial for MS. They are:

Vitamin D (4,000 i.u./day) colecalciferol form
Omega 3 oils
B-12 (methylcobolamin) sublingual 5-10 mg/day
These three supplements directly relate to MS. Vitamin D regulates the immune system, the body makes both brain cells and myelin from Omega 3, and methylcobolamin is the form of B-12 that has direct application to the central nervous system. OTHER THAN THESE THREE, NO OTHER SUPPLEMENTS ARE LIKELY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN MS SYMPTOMS OR SEVERITY.
It is thought that OPC "may" have a beneficial effect on the blood brain barrier (and I do take it daily), but so far as I know there is no scientific evidence to bake that up. I believe strongly that plant-based minerals are important building blocks for all cells in our body, and I include them in my supplements every day. A good multiple is also probably a good thing for most people. Most other things like Co-Q-10, etc., just help to keep us healthy. Some of us, depending upon our age, sex, etc., need to add one or two items
I prefer that people spend their dollars on healthy organic produce rather than synthetic supplements. If we eat a proper diet, we rely on the three supplements listed above that directly relate to MS. Please don't be deceived by well-meaning sales people that anything else is going to be a magic elixir for MS. Also remember that whatever the various companies call their supplements (an example is "neutraceuticals," they are still just supplements.
STRESS REDUCTION: Exercise and deep breathing certainly help with stress reduction, but the best stress reduction technique I know of is meditation. Any library will have all kinds of information/help with meditation. There are many avenues to meditation. The important things is that one gets started. In its simplest form one is merely learning to still the mind chatter. And it is in that mental silence that we reach total relaxation. Carried a step further in that silence we many times may have profound experiences.
In the little book I wrote, From MS to Wellness, I listed meditation as one of the healing tools I used. In it I gave some simple ways to begin meditating. If you do not have From MS to Wellness, I make it available in a Word text format for free if you'll just send me an e-mail asking for it. If you would like a bound copy of the book, just send along $3.00 for postage and I'll mail you a copy. Send to Iams House, 139 Inner Circle, Davis CA 95618.
So. What are you waiting for? Whether you need to start or re-start a healthy lifestyle program for yourself, I can't imagine any excuse for putting it off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

My prayers to all of you! Chris
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vonner

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:18 pm

hey there chris thanks but i have been to the vonner site. it's that they talk about the netherlands "hegsii research" but when you search for hegsii in google, there's only "vonner" and "lymeresource" results.

i went and did a whois search on those two sites because they have similar design and i was curious if they were hosted on the same server. it doesn't look like it, but i did find some text that said VEGSII research, but when you google vegsii, it still only comes up with vonner, lymeresource, and another one streptomyces.org (which links to lymeresource too, even though the page design is different) and there's also a result for vegsii.com which doesn't have any page to display. the only results which actually seem specific to a company called vegsii research in the netherlands (and aren't in english) are one or two company directory sites, along the lines of voluntary yellow pages. i'm such a journal citation fan, it just rubs the wrong way not to be able to validate the statements on the vonner site.
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Postby Chris55 » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:38 pm

Well, Jimmylegs, it is true Dr. B does not do advertising! Everything we know comes from folks who actually used him and his products.

It's interesting. I have been doing a lot of research lately on the Hepititis B vaccine. (A lady had emailed me after having a reaction to her vaccine.) Suzy's first problem--and the one that continues to haunt her--occurred right after her Hepititis vaccine. Things I have learned: her shot contained Mercury (completely eliminated in 2002) and some of the other properties of the vaccine such as yeast. The theory that when the body builds antibodies to the vaccine, they could possibly be building antibodies to the other ingredients.

I have no CLUE if any of this is correct and do not know if there is any relation, but my daughter's chronic itching arms--diagnosed as an MS symptom--could be a fungal infection. I have never believed it was MS. It has very slowly moved, now both arms, upper back and chest. She gets pus-filled blisters, etc. Something in Dr. B's first treatment completely stopped the itching but we have no clue what it was. The itching did come back. She is now on supplements for strep bacteria/fungal infection and her arms are doing much better.

Just talking out loud here! As far as Dr. B goes, my original feelings continue. If it can do no harm...Jesus, why not if it might help! And he has helped so many--several we have personal knowledge of.

Jimmylegs, if you are really interested, why don't you drop a dime and call the center in Atlanta. You may have to be transferred a few times, but I am sure someone there can answer many of your questions. They are strictly non-profit and as I said earlier, Dr. B helped one of their "higher ups" in their church and this is their way of saying "thank you". If I ever hear anything more, I will pass it on. Take care....
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