VERY interesting diagnosis!

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VERY interesting diagnosis!

Postby Chris55 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:00 pm

BACKGROUND: My daughter's very first symptom (severe itching in her arm) occurred almost immediately after receiving a Hep. B vaccine (which was not given correctly which caused great concern for her doctor. She had the vaccine at the health department.) During my early research, I joined a Hep. B vaccine reaction website. Did it so long ago actually forgot I did!

JUMP FORWARD: A few weeks ago, a lady in her 50s contacted me via this site. She was having ALL of the typical MS symptoms, except that she was also having a fever. After going to 8 DIFFERENT doctors in 8 days (literally--this lady is an absolute BASKET CASE!), she got a definitive diagnosis today from the Indiana Medical University.

Polyarthritis and serum sickness FROM THE HEP. B VACCINE! Her doctor said he has seen this result with the Hep. B vaccine. He suggested Neurontin for awhile. I guess what I find so appalling here is that it came from a real honest-to-god medical university! Yes, she has brain lesions. Yes, she has numbness moving up her body on the left side, fatigue, memory problems, etc.--all the "classics". Yes, she has spasicity(sp???). (The concern I have here--as with my own daughter--this usually does not occur until much later in the disease.)

What say any of you????
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my 2c

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:53 pm

i say, that my attack happened within two weeks of my hep A vaccine.
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Postby JFH » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:56 am

With so much unknown we must be careful about distinguishing between a trigger and a cause.
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trigger?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:52 am

i would definitely say in my case, that i was an accident waiting to happen. i was highly worried about the travel vaccine for no reason i could really define. i actually cried as she tried to sell me at least three shots, and in the end i grudgingly, tearfully agreed to hepA. looking back i think they should have asked a few more penetrating questions rather than just quoting a statistic on the small number of people that might have an adverse reaction.

my spinal cord was already quite compromised from the years of b12 and iron insufficiency/deficiency, and d3 too for that matter, and i also had a weak immune system given the long history of candida problems and psoriasis. so indeed, i view the vaccine as perhaps one of the straws that broke the camel's back. that january i cracked my tailbone (twice on ice at work) and head (once on ice snowboarding without a helmet) and after the final blow to the head the wave of numbness/hypersensitivity up to the collarbone and down to the fingertips began. so mine's a very complicated scenario within which hepA vaccine is potentially a player.
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Postby Chris55 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:54 am

Jimmylegs--I definitely feel the Hep. shot was the culprit for my daughter. As I said, have been researching this and found some very interesting info. First, the mercury in the vaccine can cause neurological problems. I know, I know...this could NOT possibly cause MS or Autism, etc. They are so sure of themselves that is why they removed it from all vaccines??? They also include yeast in the vaccine delivery. One of the symptoms of the polyarthritis is skin problems.

My daughter also has a very weak immune system, terrible digestive problems and could not drink milk as a baby. Could not eat or drink anything but a formula that was totally synthetic until age 8 months. Could not eat solid food until close to age one and was very limited in what she could eat. Took a lot of antibiotics growing up.

After all of my research, I just can't buy the autoimmune theory. For me, it just means "We don't have a clue". With all that I have read, it just doesn't make sense to me at all.
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vaccine stuff

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:07 am

i hear ya sista. when you say culprit, i think what jfh was getting at was clarifying if you mean trigger to set off an underlying situation in your daughter right? you don't mean that the vaccine was the "cause" but certainly a "factor" in her scenario, am i right?
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Postby Chris55 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:15 am

Actually no...I believe the problem IS the vaccine itself. I don't look at MS as this highly complicated, other-worldly problem. I think if someone ever finds out what causes it, it could be quite simple. Neither am I convinced it is just "one" thing, i.e., the various substances in the vaccine could all play a part. And again, I do not think MS is just "one and the same" disease. And I am not fond of the word "trigger".

After all of my research, there are just TOO MANY contradictions and way too many undiscovereds/unprovens as well as discovereds/provens.

All JMO..worth nothing!
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my bad

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:07 pm

hey there, every opinion here is worth something, yadda yadda! ok maybe for some people the vaccine is the be-all and end-all. when you described all your daughter's pre-existing stuff i thought you might be heading for the vaccine as the straw that broke the camel's back, sorry i misinterpreted :)

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Postby JFH » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:04 am

Chris55 wrote:And I am not fond of the word "trigger".


OK Chris let me explain perhaps my take on things and the idea of a trigger mechanism. I think it highly unlikely that MS is just one disease but a group of diseases showing similar symptoms. From that I think it highly unlikely that there is one cause. Or one pathology. So I can accept for some people the onset of the disease may start with the contraction of a bug (see the CPn stories), maybe as you suggest an innoculation, maybe a trauma. Some of these may be considered as the "starting event", something that opened the door to another underlying condition (genetic predispostion ?) the real cause of the disease.

A fairly rough analogy. It is the engine of your car [automobile] that drives it forward, causes it to move, it is you turning the ignition that is the starting event, you switching on the starter motor is the trigger mechanism.
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trigger happy

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:48 am

i think i'm on the same page with ya jfh
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Postby Chris55 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:46 am

Not quite with you JFH. First, consider that the autoimmune theory is just that..a theory. There has never been any definitive proof that MS is an autoimmune disease...and LOTS to refute that theory!

As I have said, in the last couple years they have found 2 diseases, easily diagnosed and treated, that would have garnered an MS diagnosis BEFORE they were discovered.

Now, here is one of my biggest problems. I feel like neuros try to "pigeon hole" this diagnosis for anyone who may have MS symptoms. Example: You have the 5 common symptoms of Disease A. Disease B also has those exact 5 symptoms; however, it also has 5 more. If you go to the doctor with all of the symptoms of Disease B, you are not going to be tested for Disease B or treated for Disease B.

Do I believe the mercury once contained in the childhood vaccines is responsible for the dramatic increase in Autism? Yes, I do. We also have to remember that MS has been around for centuries so we need to find a common denominator that would have existed in the 1700s and the 21st century.

I am just not convinced that all of you have the same disease. I am not convinced this is an autoimmune disease. I am not convinced that current research is as open or productive as it needs to be.

These are just my opinions--nothing more, nothing less. Thanks everyone for sharing!
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????

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:34 am

i am confused how can i agree with both chris and jfh and yet they seem to disagree with each other! i don't see jfh hammering an autoimmune theory, or a unified theory that applies to all patients.

i think? you are both saying that there can be subsets within the broad, - potentially sometimes mis-applied (as is possible in my case) - label of "MS".

chris are you saying that MS is older than vaccines therefore the two are unrelated (i would say there's still a virus factor in there that pre-existed vaccines, but i'm not a "needle buff" except maybe wrt some ideas on LP method!), but that vaccination caused the problems that your daughter had, irrespective of any prior underlying conditions, resulting in an illness that fits the (vague) diagnostic tool for MS?
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Postby JFH » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:07 pm

Chris55 wrote:Not quite with you JFH.
Sorry if I'm being obscure.
Chris55 wrote:I feel like neuros try to "pigeon hole" this diagnosis for anyone who may have MS symptoms.
I think it's worse than that, the pigeon holeing then extends to RR SP or PP.
Chris55 wrote:I am just not convinced that all of you have the same disease.
Nor me!
Chris55 wrote:We also have to remember that MS has been around for centuries so we need to find a common denominator that would have existed in the 1700s and the 21st century.
I've a little bit a problem with this line of argument Chris. Two thoughts. First as we agree, if there are many MS type diseases why should they have any common factor? But let's accept there may be, over 400 years I dont think there enough invariants to make the effort too worthwhile - the one certain invariant "latitude and Vit D exposure" has already been identified.
[EDIT] As I think it over even this is not consistent. Lifestyles in that time have moved from argicultural to industrial, rural to urban so UV exposure has changed!
Chris55 wrote:I am not convinced that current research is as open or productive as it needs to be.
Too right! The SF1019 debate is an example.
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Postby Chris55 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:56 pm

Let me see if I can make myself a little clearer. I do not accept the "MS autoimmune" theory. Think of the stomach ulcer--too much acid. Now they know it is a bacteria. Never had anything to do with stomach acid but it was so accepted, no one even questioned it! So..moving on..

I would not be surprised if 5 of you on this board with similar symptoms could have 5 totally different diseases IF they could diagnose them. Example: Suppose you Jimmylegs, really have chronic lyme disease. Like MS, no definitive test. Suppose they came out with one tomorrow and you passed! Suppose Suzy's problem was a direct result of her Hep b shot but no way to prove it. Suppose there was a test tomorrow that could prove it and she tested positive.

Again, there have been TWO diseases discovered in the past 3 years that would have garnered an MS diagnosis but neither is MS. They have a diagnostic blood test AND treatment for both.

Neurovax regulates the immune system by increasing the "generals" so they can control the "soldiers". If that doesn't run contrary to the CRAB drug targets, what does???

I am not anywhere near convinced that MS is not a bacteria...or like you, Jimmylegs, a virus. Repeating myself here...I do NOT think the research arena WANTS to find a simple, curable, cheap treatment for MS. (I'm a cynic, I'm a cynic, I'm a cynic!)

Isn't this fun--picking brains. I personally think it is a very healthy pasttime. Again, thanks to all of you who contribute. C.
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Postby JFH » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:08 pm

Chris55 wrote:Isn't this fun--picking brains. I personally think it is a very healthy pasttime. Again, thanks to all of you who contribute. C.

+1

But I think we might have taken this thread as far as it goes and my football [soccer] team is winning 3-0 at half-time so I'm off to watch the rest of the game :)
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