Parasites - one for Lyon

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Postby Lyon » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:44 am

Hi Cure,
You knew I'd go and check it out didnt you! you bated me.
I know you're being humorous but I do want to make it clear that I'm not promoting buying and swallowing these things, I just hope to promote people becoming interested in this field. With more interest will come more money for research and I'm convinced the relationship between the loss of these parasites and incidence of immune disorder deserves more funding.

Although I do like the fact that if someone is desperate enough and can afford it, a sterile source of these parasites are available to give a try. On the other hand, it seems to detract from the validity that they are available online and not really scientifically proven yet. Although by definition these parasites probably fall under the classification of probiotics I'm convinced that this field has far more potential than what most people consider probiotics to be.
Bob
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Postby Dunmann » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:36 pm

Here is the full article as posted in Annals of Neurology. It's interesting to see the effects on the various T-cells!

Association between parasite infection and immune responses in multiple sclerosis
Jorge Correale, MD *, Mauricio Farez, MD
Department of Neurology, Raúl Carrea Institute for Neurological Research (FLENI), Buenos Aires, Argentina

email: Jorge Correale (jcorreale@fleni.org.ar)

*Correspondence to Jorge Correale, Raúl Carrea Institute for Neurological Research, FLENI, Montañeses 2325, 1428 Buenos Aires, Argentina

Abstract

Objective
To assess whether parasite infection is correlated with a reduced number of exacerbations and altered immune reactivity in multiple sclerosis (MS).

Methods
A prospective, double-cohort study was performed to assess the clinical course and radiological findings in 12 MS patients presenting associated eosinophilia. All patients presented parasitic infections with positive stool specimens. In all parasite-infected MS patients, the eosinophilia was not present during the 2 previous years. Eosinophil counts were monitored at 3- to 6-month intervals. When counts became elevated, patients were enrolled in the study. Interleukin (IL)-4, IL-10, IL-12, transforming growth factor (TGF)-, and interferon- production by myelin basic protein-specific peripheral blood mononuclear cells were studied using enzyme-linked immunospot (ELISPOT). FoxP3 and Smad7 expression were studied by reverse-transcriptase polymerase chain reaction.

Results
During a 4.6-year follow-up period, parasite-infected MS patients showed a significantly lower number of exacerbations, minimal variation in disability scores, as well as fewer magnetic resonance imaging changes when compared with uninfected MS patients. Furthermore, myelin basic protein-specific responses in peripheral blood showed a significant increase in IL-10 and TGF- and a decrease in IL-12 and interferon--secreting cells in infected MS patients compared with noninfected patients. Myelin basic protein-specific T cells cloned from infected subjects were characterized by the absence of IL-2 and IL-4 production, but high IL-10 and/or TGF- secretion, showing a cytokine profile similar to the T-cell subsets Tr1 and Th3. Moreover, cloning frequency of CD4+CD25+ FoxP3+ T cells was substantially increased in infected patients compared with uninfected MS subjects. Finally, Smad7 messenger RNA was not detected in T cells from infected MS patients secreting TGF-.

Interpretation
Increased production of IL-10 and TGF-, together with induction of CD25+CD4+ FoxP3+ T cells, suggests that regulatory T cells induced during parasite infections can alter the course of MS. Ann Neurol 2007



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received: 24 July 2006; Revised: 21 November 2006; Accepted: 28 November 2006
Dunmann.
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Postby Lyon » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:55 pm

Dunmann wrote:Here is the full article as posted in Annals of Neurology.
Thank you Dunmann!
It's interesting to see the effects on the various T-cells!
Isn't that interesting? Rather than just suppressing the immune system these bugs seem to control multiple aspects to put levels where they need to be. It's entirely possible that these helminths "put to right" elements of our immune system we aren't even aware exist.

When returning these parasites back to the human system it's hard to tell if the parasites themselves are capable of controlling all those aspects of our immune system or if adding the parasites causes our immune systems to regain lost competance?

An afterthought. I don't think it would be lost on you that the longer the history between the helminth and man, the more convincing the argument that helminth and man are medically intertwined in an evolutionary sense.

In unrelated reading about parasites I read that parasitologists are confounded due to the fact that parasites are soft tissue and don't fossilize well so even though they are thought to be ancient they've only been able to date human parasites back a couple hundred thousand years. Still plenty long enough for parasites to "learn" to maniupulate the human immune system and plenty long enough for the human immune system to have evolved to depend on them doing that but it seems to me it's provable even without fossils that the relationship is millions of years longer.

The human immune system is easily capable of killing these parasites, yet it doesn't. It would be impossible for something not having the ability to "modulate" an immune system to live long enough to complete it's life cycle in an animal with an immune system and it would be impossible for these helminths to evolve the ability to modulate immune systems without having experienced immune systems.

The only scenario that leaves open is that the animal which millions of years later would evolve into the human was infested with parasites before evolving an immune system and the parasites evolved their control of the immune system as the immune system developed.

With that in mind I don't find it surprising that our immune system is so dependant on the darned things.

Literally the only questions the helminths don't answer is why everyone isn't afflicted with immune problems and why women are more often affected and I'm confident those answers will become obvious with more knowledge of the situation.

It's risky reading an article based on a study because you're always getting someone else's personal "spin" but some people (like me) like their information handed to them in an easier format to understand and here is an interesting one http://tinyurl.com/yut8ft
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Postby CureOrBust » Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:04 am

Lyon wrote:a sterile source of these parasites are available

Even the sterile ones are sourced from pig-poo!

On their web site they say how they "source" them from specially bred sterile pigs. But I still have the mental image of a guy in a lab coat and huge thick gloves, leaning over the drain with pig-poo in a sieve, rinsing it out with the tap.
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Postby Lyon » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:19 am

CureOrBust wrote: On their web site they say how they "source" them from specially bred sterile pigs. But I still have the mental image of a guy in a lab coat and huge thick gloves, leaning over the drain with pig-poo in a sieve, rinsing it out with the tap.
Yuch! For the money Ovamed should include chocolate syrup, whipped cream and a cherry because I'm not sure I'd be able to keep my lunch of worm eggs down otherwise!

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Postby dylan48 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:37 pm

Does anone know what parasite was used in the Jorge Correale, MD
Department of Neurology, Raúl Carrea Institute for Neurological Research Argentina...study ?
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Postby Lyon » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:58 pm

dylan48 wrote:Does anone know what parasite was used in the Jorge Correale, MD
Department of Neurology, Raúl Carrea Institute for Neurological Research Argentina...study ?
Hi Dylan,
This was copied and pasted from the report: "Three patients were infected with Hymenolepis nana, 3 with Trichuris trichiura, 3 with Ascaris lumbricoides, 2 with Strongyloides stercolaris, and 1 with Enterobius vermicularis."

It's actually in the early view of the Annals of Neurology website so I don't know when it will go in print.
Bob
Last edited by Lyon on Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby dylan48 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:31 pm

Schistosoma mansoni ? do the come from Schistosoma mansoni farms ?
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Postby Lyon » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:53 pm

dylan48 wrote:Schistosoma mansoni ? do the come from Schistosoma mansoni farms ?
I'm not sure what you mean but here is some information on Schistosoma mansoni http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~schisto/Back ... hor1248329
Not very nice creatures.
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Postby CureOrBust » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:05 am

Lyon wrote:"Three patients were infected with Hymenolepis nana, 3 with Trichuris trichiura, 3 with Ascaris lumbricoides, 2 with Strongyloides stercolaris, and 1 with Enterobius vermicularis."
Wait a sec, these are the white ones aren't they? :)
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Postby Lyon » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:12 am

CureOrBust wrote:
Lyon wrote:"Three patients were infected with Hymenolepis nana, 3 with Trichuris trichiura, 3 with Ascaris lumbricoides, 2 with Strongyloides stercolaris, and 1 with Enterobius vermicularis."
Wait a sec, these are the white ones aren't they? :)
Gee whiz, I'm not sure. I thought I was the parasite fanatic but honestly, I've never even HEARD of a couple of those. I'm going to look them up tonight.
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Postby dylan48 » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:56 am

Bob,

As an example

If a elderly Chinese needs a little help in the old sakaroonie a Black Rhino in Africa is found by the road with his horn taken. No doubt the logic for wanting rhino horn didn't come from Annals of Neuorology..

My question I guess is where is the market ? Hymenolepis nana, 3 with Trichuris trichiura, 3 with Ascaris lumbricoides, 2 with Strongyloides stercolaris, and 1 with Enterobius vermicularis...these are not endangered critters...What is stoppig the market ?

Thanks
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Postby dylan48 » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:31 am

My question my be a legal queston ?

Thanks
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Postby Lyon » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:10 am

dylan48 wrote:My question my be a legal queston ?
Thanks
Hi Dylan,
You're right, as far as selling them it's a legal question but it's a whole bunch of other things too. Despite the fact that we'd loved to have been rid of them 100 years ago, they're amazingly hard to come by now, and even if you got infected with these parasites you'd have to find some way to reinfect yourself periodically as they die off in your system.

Since the very beginning of this research the researchers have been dealing with exactly what you're talking about....desperate people wanting to infect themselves with parasites. That's why the University of Iowa researchers worked with Ovamed in Germany to sell the T suis (swine whipworm) but personally, I don't think they're doing this field of research any favors. Kind of turns this thing into some kind of weird probiotic situation and it's much more than that.

The best thing to come of this is that researchers are trying to isolate the chemicals these helminths produce to make a treatment from it and I think that would be the ultimate solution.

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Postby dylan48 » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:17 am

So are we talking a natural supplement ... or FDA approval ? the amount of time I guess to get a product to the market must be quite different.

Thanks

How do you see it shaking out ?
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