If you don’t like conspiracy theories or half baked ideas, you can stop reading now, its long. However, if you enjoy to pick the threads from a poorly made suit, read on, I welcome the exchange.
Two points to start with:
1. Now, PRECEED EVERY SENTENCE WITH A "MAYBE", "POSSIBLY" or finish it with a "?" (as appropriate)
2. Read point 1 again.
* The BBB is in simple terms, the walls of capillaries http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/B/blood-brain_barrier.html
A key aspect of the blood-brain barrier are the thin, flat cells known as endothelial cells which form the walls of capillaries
* All people produce MRTC's weather they have or will get MS or not.http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-3543.html
(and Klein et al., 2000; Bruno et al., 2002)
* Steroids work so well on relapses because they block the BBB http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1619410&dopt=Citation
* Steroids stop working after some time of continued use, but they keep working for transplant patients (ie Immune down regulation doesn’t appear to fail, well I have never heard of it anyway but lets assumed it is accepted)
* EAE is a disease model based on creating MRTC's, not BBB permeability (read point 1 again...)
* A lot of MS treatments are 100% effective in EAE, but not that great on MS
* Tysabri works by latching onto T-cells making the BBB impermeable to them. ie It kind of stops BBB permeability, and is currently the highest rated "approved" treatment.
There are two main paths of pathology for the damage
a) "Anti-Brain Factor 1" (lets say this is MRTC's) (ABF1)
b) "Anti-Brain factor 2" (this is the unknown) (ABF2)
In case you didnt notice, I made up the term "Anti-Brain factor"...
Now, it’s ABF2 that is unknown, and I propose is why all the immune modulatory treatments do not work 100%. Now under ABF2's, as an unknown, I would imply in all, that it would be more than one. And if you
consider that the BBB is permeable, the reason its there is to keep stuff that shouldn’t be there, out. Such as MRTC's as well as ABF2's. Now, these things may be fine in the general blood stream, but are ABF's in the CSF.
All the 100% effective on EAE are effective in EAE because they work on ABF1. Things like Helminthes are ALMOST but not completely effective against MS, as they also work on ABF1 but, they may help against ABF2's as well. We don’t know yet.
It kind of has also been proposed, that ABF2 (ie the unknown) causes death of nerve cells (Myelin, oligodendrocytes or neurons take your pick) and it’s the ABF1 that comes in and tries to clear the damage, however causes further damage.(Prineas and Barrett, but they were too scared to come up with a catchy title like "Anti-Brain Factor")
Now Tovaxin only attacks the MRTC's, but we have only seen the high short term effectiveness of it to stop relapses. Has anyone tried it on PPMS or SPMS? Maybe that’s the difference between RRMS and the other two. RRMS is a disease mediated by ANBF1 and PPMS is a disease mediated by ABF2's.
Many believe in a contagious factor. CPn (and probably many other microbes both bacteria and virus) is known to love and cause damage to blood vessels. ie the BBB? Could this explain the Faroe islands? When vanderbuilt checked the CSF for CPn they only found it in a percentage of samples. Has anyone actually checked the BBB for CPn etc? Vanderbuilt were checking the fluid only if I got it right.
Vit D is said to strengthen the BBB. Could this explain the expression between the equator and poles?
Could the various diets that have worked for many, actually be strengthening the BBN?
Could the various diets that have worked for many actually reduce the toxins (ie ABF2's) in the blood stream, and hence cross over into our CSF?
Statins appear to be working for many. They have been found to decrease BBB permeability.
(posted by dignan at
Uric acid appears to reduce but not remove the risk of MS. Could it be fighting (a losing battle) against the ABF2's (or it the damage caused by ABF1's & 2's) that have made it into the CSF. But in the thread link provided below, jimmylegs found it may also hel0p with BBB permeability
There are a lot of holes in these ramblings, but they have been accumulating over the months to the point where I had to put them in words. Remember, I am not proposing any of the above as an absolute, just a possibility to be discussed.
Now I understand virtually every one here (well at least the vocal ones) have already been stating that’s it’s not an Auto-immune condition, so I am not looking for the "yeah, this is what I have been saying" posts. I hardly see posts regarding thee BBB except for the side mention and this thread http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-16313.html
I remember one of the first diagnoses I had received was of CIDP (chronic inflammatory de-mylinating poly neuropathy). Basically non CNS MS. I remember when I first started searching on the net about it, and I kept hitting MS web sites, so I read, and got a little scared. I asked my immunologist who diagnosed me, that MS sounds like my condition with a leaky BBB; could I progress to MS. He assured me that would not happen (should have got that one in writing, with a money back guarantee)
I am not the only one or the first to push the BBB as the MAIN culprit (see http://www.thisisms.com/content-3.html
), but I feel it doesn’t get discussed enough in research and discussion.
So let’s try it against the other twelve prepositions coined by the "Best bet diet guy":
1- It must be found throughout the world but be specific enough to affect only half or less of the susceptible individuals.
> BBB's are found around the world. And by definition I am saying that permeable ones occur around the world.
2- It must affect immigrant children more than it does immigrant adults. On the other hand it must affect susceptible identical twins mainly when they are adults rather than when they are children.
>huh? maybe the BBB lack of permeability is built mostly during childhood?
3- It must be much more common or effective in northwestern Europe, Canada, United States, Australia and New Zealand than in the rest of the world.
>This would be the Vit D link to BBB stability. Or there could be a genetic pre-disposition for a permeable BBB
4- It must be more common or effective in higher latitude areas so as to create a pronounced north/south gradient of MS prevalence.
>see point 3 and the great thing, I could include diet here as a cover all...
5- It must have enough variation so as to create significant MS prevalence and incidence differences within ethnically homogeneous populations over relatively short distances.
>again genetic pre-disposition for a permeable BBB
6- In Hawaii it must adversely affect those of Japanese origin whereas at the same time have a positive effect on Caucasians.
>again genetic pre-disposition for a permeable BBB. Also the effect of Vit D on BBB and the way different genetic groups react to it and other food items?
7- It must be transportable so as to explain the sudden increase in MS prevalence in the Faroes following British troop occupation during World War II.
>If bacterial or viral infections cause BBB permeability, it’s covered
8- It cannot be transmitted by either person to person contact or by a blood transfusion.
>covered. I am saying it’s not in the blood.
9- It must be increasingly more widespread and effective over the last 100 years.
>Change of diet, ummm... Reduced infection with helminthes which may have covered the incidents of BBB permeability
I know I have pulled a lot together to cover the one thing, but if it were simple, it would have been cured by now.
Anyway, this has gone on long enough. Remember its just thinking out load, but please feel free to shoot holes at will. Boy, that must be my longest post. Do i get bonus points?