Lowering cholestrol, diet and -----> same effect as sati

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Lowering cholestrol, diet and -----> same effect as sati

Postby Crying_Chic » Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:27 pm

Hello,

I've been following the Swank diet with added fish oils for a couple of months now.

Recently I've been thinking about taking plant sterols supplements to lower my cholesterol even further.

Will this be similar to taking the satin drugs or do these drugs have a further effect that reduces the effects of MS?

Thanks
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Postby CureOrBust » Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:10 pm

Statins have a known anti-inflamatory effect which is separate to their cholestorol abilities, they have also been shown to improve the integrity of the BBB. There has even been research which has shown they have some antibacterial effect (against CPn)
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:35 am

vitamin b3 can also be used as an alternative to statins. looks like combining the two might not be a great idea:
http://www.prevention.com/article/0,577 ... -1,00.html
http://www.umm.edu/news/releases/niacin_statin.htm

good results on its own:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/110/23/3512
http://jama.highwire.org/cgi/content/ab ... 84/10/1263

there might be something else out there mentioning risks of taking niacin on its own but at first glance the above was representative of the search results

here's a link to an anti-inflammatory article (statins and ms) but it's only the title and also only an editorial:
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/citation/59/7/970

statins as an immunomodulator:
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/59/7/990

haven't found anything specific about b3 and ms. it's lumped in with other nutrients.
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Postby Crying_Chic » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:11 am

Interesting.

I remember reading an article about B3 and improvements in EAE.

I'm shocked at the B3 doses given in these studies, it must be much better tolerated than I thought.

Anyone using B3? If so what dose do you use?

Thanks for the replies
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niacin

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:47 pm

i'm taking only 100 per day as part of a b100 complex right now. but it's niacinamide so no flushing. when i was using the niacin as part of a modified klenner protocol last year, i was taking up to i think about 100 - 300 straight niacin, and that would get a good flush going. it was pretty good, helped me a lot, but i didn't do it for too long because well megadosing, i tend not to do that for too long in one shot. but under the klenner protocol there are reports of 5-8 years of treatment. a personal choice as usual.
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Postby carolsue » Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:18 pm

My husband, who does not have MS, has had good results with lowering his cholesterol by taking niacin (b3). His GP suggested this as a possible alternative to statins, but the GP was noticeably surprised that it worked as well as it did. I think he takes as much as 2000-2500 daily, but he had to work up his tolerance over a week or two. Sometimes he "flushes," even with the no-flush varieties you can get.
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b3 for cholesterol

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:56 am

hey that's great that it worked so well CS!
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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:45 am

jimmylegs wrote:vitamin b3 can also be used as an alternative to statins. looks like combining the two might not be a great idea:
http://www.prevention.com/article/0,577 ... -1,00.html
http://www.umm.edu/news/releases/niacin_statin.htm
Statins and Niacin both help with Cholesterol, but I have read nowhere that for multiple sclerosis they work on the same chemical pathways. B3 may help MS as well as Statins, but that does not mean they are interchangeable.

As such I would be very sceptical that they work in the same way. I take Lipitor, and have taken Niacin up to doses of 1200mg (a fairly strong flush) and personally did not notice the same immediate effects that I was feeling with lipitor at the time.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:17 am

heya cob, did anyone say they worked in the same way? did i not just say i couldn't find anything specific about b3 and ms?
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:38 am

here's the abstract for the b3 / eae study:
http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/38/9794
Protecting Axonal Degeneration by Increasing Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide Levels in Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis Models

Shinjiro Kaneko,1 Jing Wang,1 Marie Kaneko,1 Glenn Yiu,1 Joanna M. Hurrell,1 Tanuja Chitnis,2 Samia J. Khoury,2 and Zhigang He1

1Division of Neuroscience, Children's Hospital Boston, Harvard Medical School, and 2Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02115

Correspondence should be addressed to Zhigang He, Division of Neuroscience, Children's Hospital Boston, Enders #379, 320 Longwood Avenue, Boston, MA 02115. Email: zhigang.he@childrens.harvard.edu

Axonal damage is a major morphological alteration in the CNS of patients with multiple sclerosis (MS) and its animal model, experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE). However, the underlying mechanism for the axonal damage associated with MS/EAE and its contribution to the clinical symptoms remain unclear. The expression of a fusion protein, named "Wallerian degeneration slow" (Wlds), can protect axons from degeneration, likely through a -nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD)-dependent mechanism. In this study, we find that, when induced with EAE, Wlds mice showed a modest attenuation of behavioral deficits and axon loss, suggesting that EAE-associated axon damage may occur by a mechanism similar to Wallerian degeneration. Furthermore, nicotinamide (NAm), an NAD biosynthesis precursor, profoundly prevents the degeneration of demyelinated axons and improves the behavioral deficits in EAE models. Finally, we demonstrate that delayed NAm treatment is also beneficial to EAE models, pointing to the therapeutic potential of NAm as a protective agent for EAE and perhaps MS patients.
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Postby CureOrBust » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:07 am

jimmylegs wrote:heya cob, did anyone say they worked in the same way? did i not just say i couldn't find anything specific about b3 and ms?

To quote you:
jimmylegs wrote:vitamin b3 can also be used as an alternative to statins.
Lets not forget we are on an MS board.

To me, I read that as saying they are interchangeable, which is not a far strech to say that they work on the same chemical pathways. If they worked in different ways, they wouldnt be an "alternative" but an adjunct.
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:08 am

a little much reading into things from my perspective, especially given the nature of the linked abstracts, but this board is all about perspectives.
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