More Aggressive Forms

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

More Aggressive Forms

Postby Lyon » Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:54 am

Along the way I've noticed that the Japanese are affected with a more aggressive form of MS as it is also speculated that African Americans, the male sex and indeed it seems that in the US, as MS strikes an increasing percentage of the population, it's been speculated that it was more aggressive when it first began it's increasing incidence which is sometimes considered to have really started rolling in the 1950's.

Of course this is speculation, food for thought, but what those populations seem to share in common is disease aggressiveness and recent involvement in disease incidence.

I suppose I could also throw out there that even among the "normal" MS population (white women) later age of onset seems to more often show increased disease aggressiveness. Another way of viewing that situation might be that those people were born earlier in the 20th century. Possibly less removed from an earlier environmental protective factor which no longer exists and puts them "closer" to the point of increased MS incidence.

Just wondering if anyone else had thought about this or if it makes sense to anyone else.
Bob
Lyon
Family Elder
 
Posts: 6063
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 3:00 pm

Advertisement

Postby SarahLonglands » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:53 am

Just to put a small spanner in the works, as an Anglo-Saxon female who first developed MS at the age of 24. For years it was very benign and I had years of thinking "Oh, its not that bad, I can cope with this." But relapses then became more frequent with less full recovery in between, then in 2001 it suddenly became very aggressive. So aggressive that I shouldn't be here now.
Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
SarahLonglands
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2105
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Bedfordshire UK

Postby TwistedHelix » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:11 am

Hi Bob,

Now it's my turn to try and interpret one of your posts! :wink:
Are you saying that there was a point in our recent past when something changed: something was removed from our systems which up until then had protected us from certain diseases, and the further away we get from that point in history, the more common and aggressive MS becomes? Would I also be right in thinking that, right at this very moment, your fingers are hovering above the keyboard just itching to type the word "helminths"? If so, I can't see anything wrong with that theory, but I also can't see a mechanism which would make things actually deteriorate over time -- you either have worms, or you don't.
Having just said that, I'm now going to disagree with myself, (that's the problem with having no one here to talk to): perhaps in a modernising society the parasites are the first to go, leaving our immune systems and bodies out of balance, followed by decades of changes in everything from diet and general hygiene to stress levels and environmental toxins. As you said: just speculating.

Anecdote: I've just noticed we live in neighbouring counties, and I've also just noticed the amazing story contained in your signature... that really is an incredible drop in your EDSS score -- well done: that's the kind of success that gives everyone hope!
Dom
User avatar
TwistedHelix
Family Elder
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northamptonshire, England.

Postby Lyon » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:13 am

TwistedHelix wrote:Now it's my turn to try and interpret one of your posts! :wink:
Are you saying that there was a point in our recent past when something changed: something was removed from our systems which up until then had protected us from certain diseases, and the further away we get from that point in history, the more common and aggressive MS becomes? Would I also be right in thinking that, right at this very moment, your fingers are hovering above the keyboard just itching to type the word "helminths"? If so, I can't see anything wrong with that theory, but I also can't see a mechanism which would make things actually deteriorate over time -- you either have worms, or you don't.
Hi Dom,
You know me all too well! Actually, I'm trying to widen my scope from the loss of helminths to the loss of "evolutionary normal conditions" because even though the loss of parasites was by far the strongest effect it seems that the loss of exposure to all these things in youth was important.
but I also can't see a mechanism which would make things actually deteriorate over time -- you either have worms, or you don't.
Good question and I overcomplicated things. It might have been better if I'd only mentioned that MS "seemed" to become less aggressive the longer a given population is exposed to it and left increasing incidence out of the picture altogether. The reasons? Even though figures being used for any studies we would be reading claim that MS incidence is increasing, other than a few isolated spots in the apallatians parasites have pretty much become extinct in the US in the last 20 years or so and if this "loss of environmental normal conditions" thing has any truth to it, increasing incidence per capita should be leveling off, given that it takes 10-15 years for some of these parasites to die out. In other words, increasing incidence really has no relationship to whether or not MS is getting milder in subsequent generations and I shouldn't have mentioned it.

Sorry to further muddy the picture. To get back to the point, with increased incidence out of the way I'm not sure you can consider that things are deteriorating but instead are getting better but I don't know how to answer that. Might being 2 or 3 generations removed from "evolutionary normal" conditions enough time to expect changes from Mother Nature in regards to lighter and lighter cases of MS until it no longer exists? Remember this whole thing is blatant speculation.
Bob
Just to put a small spanner in the works, as an Anglo-Saxon female who first developed MS at the age of 24. For years it was very benign and I had years of thinking "Oh, its not that bad, I can cope with this." But relapses then became more frequent with less full recovery in between, then in 2001 it suddenly became very aggressive. So aggressive that I shouldn't be here now.
Hi Sarah, I see your point but remember that the figures used by researchers involve averages so it would be expected that within those averages remain a good number of very aggressive cases and very mild cases.
Lyon
Family Elder
 
Posts: 6063
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 3:00 pm

Postby TwistedHelix » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:49 am

So MS gets less aggressive over time? Do you think our bodies are rebalancing to find a new homeostasis with each passing generation: absorbing and compensating for the loss of something protective? As you said, that would be a remarkably quick adaptation--too quick for evolution--but it would be possible if this system contained a wide margin of natural fluctuation,
Dom
User avatar
TwistedHelix
Family Elder
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northamptonshire, England.

Postby Lyon » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:15 am

TwistedHelix wrote:So MS gets less aggressive over time? Do you think our bodies are rebalancing to find a new homeostasis with each passing generation: absorbing and compensating for the loss of something protective? As you said, that would be a remarkably quick adaptation--too quick for evolution--but it would be possible if this system contained a wide margin of natural fluctuation,
Hi Dom,
First, WHO IS THAT KID IN THE PICTURE AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PICTURE OF THE OLD GUY WE KNEW AND LOVED?

Second, I'm just saying that I have seen evidence, I think we've all seen evidence that there are population wide variations in the aggressiveness of the disease and that I think it could be theorized that there is some consistancy in their being "new" to the MS disease process. I've also read that MS "seems" to be getting milder in the "traditional" MS population, primarily white females.

This whole thought process is dependant on a whole bunch of factors I haven't even confirmed and even if true, as you mentioned it's too soon to expect evolution to have played a part. I guess I was just wondering if any of this made any kind of sense to the rest of you?
Bob
Lyon
Family Elder
 
Posts: 6063
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 3:00 pm

Postby TwistedHelix » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:02 am

I have a painting in my attic....
Dom
User avatar
TwistedHelix
Family Elder
 
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northamptonshire, England.


Return to General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users