Fillings and MS

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Postby Lyon » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:58 pm

Talking about "Tail Chasing" Could you post one scientific article/study which proves mercury in any of it's forms (elemental, vapor etc) in the mouths of humans is non toxic and does not cause neuron cell damage/death.

Hi katie,

Not to be rude (honestly) but to hit home as squarely as I can with the point, I propose the same challenge to you, only regarding grape kool-aide.

When an element is so common among both the general public AND people with MS, especially when it's sinister seeming and forefront in the public eye, yet has no supporting evidence pinpointing it as the culprit, that's where the tail chasing comes in. It's part and parcel of the history of MS.

I think it's wonderful that you are fighting MS tooth and nail and I hope beyond hope that making yourself mercury free will cower the monster.

(please check your PM's)

Bob
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Postby katie45 » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:56 pm

asked and answered. On the flip side there are many, many studies regarding and establishing the deadly effects of mercury in all forms on neuro fibers in the brain and many other organs...This is fact not theory...see university of Calgary ...neurotoxic effects of mercury amalgam..2007
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Postby Lyon » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:18 pm

Thanks katie, I'll check it out.

It's quite long, but I'm in the process of reading that paper I was telling you about and it's more critical of mercury than I imagined.

It kind of sucks, but even if amalgam were/is the instigator of the MS process in some people, I've never seen evidence that removing the fillings, once the disease process is in motion, has ever shown a documented benefit.

This is nothing more than brainstorming, but even though MS is rare in undeveloped countries, it is seen occasionally and I'd have to think those people don't have amalgam fillings.

That's with it in mind that you aren't saying that amalgam fillings are the sole instigator of MS and therefore can't be held solely responsible when trying to establish proofs.

neurotoxic effects of mercury amalgam
Is that actually the name of the article? I don't get anything from 2007 coming up on pubmed?
Bob
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Postby katie45 » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:33 pm

Bob, I am not trying to convince anyone of mercury's deadly effects...For me it's a forgone conclusion...I am living it. As I said, simply removing the amalgams is a beginning but not enough as one has to get the M out of the many sites in the body where it migrates to: brain, pituitary, kidneys., liver Small wonder that after removal of amalgams only there is not dramatic change. I also wonder about the damage it's caused and whether that is repairable..Also some people are hyperallergic (me for one) This extreme allergy seems to run in my family...I don't know if that is true for others..I would expect for hypersensitives there could be many other sources of mercury beside fillings? That said, it strikes me as criminal to use the stuff in dentistry without so much as a warning to patients
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Postby RedSonja » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:33 am

@ Cheerleader
A trifle off-topic, but: One of my friends plays the trombone, he came out in big red spots all over, and sores in and round his mouth. After visiting many doctors and specialists, they found he has become allergic to most metals. He changed his job from car mechanic to tyre salesman, he wears gloves for this. The red spots have almost disappeared and he feels much better It looked truly awful, like a red Dalmation, especially as he is mostly bald.

And, relevant for you, he had a specialist make a plastic mouthpiece for his trombone, so he doesn't put metal on his lips. He also wrapped the parts of the trombone he has to touch in the tape cyclists put on their handlebars. Maybe this is a possibility for your husband...
Bibo ergo sum
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Postby Muu » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:26 am

This gets more worrying with each new post. I have a mouthful of amalgam due to a sweet tooth and a toothbrush aversion as a child. Most of the amalgam has now been replaced as the fillings have reached the end of their useful life. But the ms/amalgam link is still a theory is it not? As so much of the population has fillings it would follow that a high proportion of us msers would also have them. But what i'd like to know is whether there are any msers out there without any amalgam.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:33 am

Me
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:33 am

Hi Red Sonja-

Thanks for the tip... that would be tough for your friend, to be allergic to his instrument! My hubby's OK with the metal on his trumpet, but I do think his amalgam fillings have had some effect on his general health, be it mouth sores or his twenty lesions on his brain and spine.

I think Bob's established his belief in the hygiene hypothesis, as documented on the boards...and I do agree with him that until we find something that happens 100% of the time in the MS community and 0% in the general pop, we won't really understand what causes the beast of MS. That said, I believe that MS is a "cascade disease"...where the individual's immune system is compromised by a variety of elements, be they toxins, bacteria, viruses, etc. and turns upon itself, trying desperately to get rid of the invader. Why does it turn? That's the 60 million dollar question.

Katie, you've found a link between amalgam and your MS flares, so mercury is probably the "straw" that has broken the camel's back for you. Maybe so for my hubby, too. I'll be praying for your removal and please let us know how that goes for you-
best,
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Postby SarahLonglands » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:34 am

double post
Last edited by SarahLonglands on Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby robin50 » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:41 am

this "discussion" is NOT NEW

and also disc. in german boards!

my argument is:
THE RATE OF MS IST AMOUNG DENTITS N O T HIGHER than usually...so. save money and let it in your mouth!

ore replace ALL teeth with "the 3. ones" like me! :lol: 8O

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Postby robin50 » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:42 am

this "discussion" is NOT NEW

and also disc. in german boards!

my argument is:
THE RATE OF MS IST AMOUNG DENTISTS N O T HIGHER than usually...so. save money and let it in your mouth!

ore replace ALL teeth with "the 3. ones" like me! :lol: 8O

robin
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Postby robin50 » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:43 am

this "discussion" is NOT NEW

and also disc. in german boards!

my argument is:
THE RATE OF MS AMOUNG DENTISTS is N O T HIGHER than usually...so. save money and let it in your mouth!

ore replace ALL teeth with "the 3. ones" like me! :lol: 8O

robin
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:00 am

Robin-
This discussion is new on these boards... ich spreche ein bissen Deutsch, so I haven't spent much time on German boards :)
Our dentist admitted he had no amalgam in his mouth, nor would he put it in his children's mouths. There is a difference between working with a toxin and ingesting/inhaling it 24/7.
And I will say once more....
Everyone has their own theory, and I am respectful of all input.
AC
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Postby Lyon » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:10 pm

Not that I'm any closer to believing that amalgam plays any part in MS incidence, but there is no doubt that the less mercury exposure you have, the better off you are.
Bob
Mercury in mascara? Minn. law bans it

By MARTIGA LOHN, Associated Press Writer Fri Dec 14, 6:13 AM ET

ST. PAUL, Minn. - The quest for thicker lashes and defined eyes should get safer in Minnesota on Jan. 1, when a state law banning mercury from mascara, eye liners and skin-lightening creams takes effect.

Minnesota apparently is the first state in the nation to ban intentionally added mercury in cosmetics, giving it a tougher standard than the federal government.

Retailers who knowingly sell mercury-containing cosmetics in Minnesota could face fines of as much as $700. Penalties could reach $10,000 for manufacturers who fail to disclose mercury on product labels, according to the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency.

"Mercury does cause neurological damage to people even in tiny quantities," said Sen. John Marty, the Democrat from Roseville who sponsored the ban. "Every source of mercury adds to it. We wanted to make sure it wasn't here."

Most makeup manufacturers have phased out the use of mercury, but it's still added legally to some eye products as a preservative and germ-killer, said John Bailey, chief scientist with the Personal Care Products Council in Washington. That group doesn't track mercury in beauty products and favors a national approach to regulating cosmetics, instead of laws that vary from state to state.

Federal law allows eye products to contain up to 65 parts per million of mercury. The exposure a person would get from a product used in small quantities around the eyes would not cause a problem, Bailey said.

"It's added at very low levels, and for good reason," he said.

No other state has specifically gone after mercury in cosmetics, said Stacy Malkan with the Campaign for Safe Cosmetics in Berkeley, Calif. Connecticut, Rhode Island and Louisiana ban products containing more than low levels of mercury, with some exceptions. New York and Illinois prohibit consumer products with mercury, such as figurines, toys and jewelry.

"Personal care products contain many problematic chemicals," Malkan said. "Many ingredients aren't listed on the labels."

Minnesota's cosmetics provision is part of a larger ban targeting better-known sources of mercury, such as thermostats, barometers, industrial switches and medical devices. The law also covers toiletries, fragrances and over-the-counter drugs such as eye drops, nasal sprays, hemorrhoid treatments and antiseptics.

State pollution regulators said they don't know how many beauty products containing mercury are sold in Minnesota.

The new law is intended as a warning to cosmetics manufacturers not to use mercury, said John Gilkeson, with the state Pollution Control Agency's toxics reduction program. Enforcement will happen mainly when consumers complain.

Using eye makeup with mercury is unlikely to cause immediate health problems, but mercury accumulates in the body, so consumers should avoid exposure whenever possible, said Carl Herbrandson, a toxicologist with the state Health Department.

"Mercury is bad, basically in all forms that get into the body," Herbrandson said.

Mercury can retard brain development in children and fetuses, who are most vulnerable to the metal's toxic effects. But it can also cause neurological symptoms in adults.

Mercury fumes can collect inside a jar of skin cream or a tube of mascara, and a person could inhale them when the container is opened, Herbrandson said.

Imported skin-lightening creams and soaps with high levels of mercury have been found in other states; they are illegal under federal law. Herbrandson said skin products with mercury are more dangerous than mercury-containing eye makeup because people apply larger quantities to their bodies.
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Postby gwa » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:18 pm

Lyon,

I just read that article and I wondered who are the mad scientists that decide to add just a dab of mercury or a touch of lead to their products??? And for what purpose?

gwa 8O 8O
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