Scare Tactics

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Scare Tactics

Postby viper498 » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:35 am

Here is a load of "BS"....

I've never had MJ before, because I don't want to get in trouble, but if it were legal, I'd definitely try it.

But... Here is a BS article that sounds more like scare tactics than fact.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/07/27/marijuana.psychosis.ap/index.html
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Postby robbie » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:09 am

Hey Viper, read the same article today. i think my ms is looking after any Psychotic feelings i have right now, mj is the least of my worries, it only helps.
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Postby CureOrBust » Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:39 pm

I don't personally use MJ, however, it just makes me incredulous when I read these articles quoting "scientists". As robbie's article eludes to, these studies are based on people who have chosen to break the law, and are normally smoking to "get high" (FAR from your average population). The results are FAR from a Phase III placebo controlled randomised and controlled trial. :evil:

These "scientists" should be stripped of their accreditation and shamed in their field. They should not be quoted by the reporters, who, come to think of it should also be ... :twisted: :evil: :evil:
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Personal observation

Postby mormiles » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:19 pm

That article is over the top. But, I'll say this about weed: I never knew a regular user who wasn't mentally "checked out" to some degree. Whether it's "toad-frog" lethargy, mental dimness, shallow thinking, lack of direction, apathy, or escapism, the effects of the habit are reflected in the regular user's life and personality. By now some of you are thinking "Give me a break, I use it for my MS." If my husband started using it, I don't know if I would be as inspired to guide and support him in his treatments as I am. I know if he did smoke dope, he wouldn't have the fortitude to keep swimming against the tide nor the patience and strength to stick with his regimen.
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Postby Toyoterry » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:45 pm

Therapists have a term for it. The term is "Amotivational Syndrome." But then, don't they have a term for everything. Personally, I've been around it my whole life. I don't use it but I know lots of friends who do. As you might expect some of them are very sucessful and some are not. I like to tease my sucessful friends by telling them that they are sucessful inspite of not because of mj.
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Postby robbie » Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:54 am

It's really good towards the end of the fight when there is only the realization that there is nothing more you can do. If you or your caregiver still believe you can help this with one of hundreds of theripies then mj isn't for you.
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Re: Scare Tactics

Postby HarryZ » Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:42 am

Hi Viper,

Every so often you get articles like this being published and I wonder if the authors aren't just looking for some kind of recognition.

The researchers said they couldn't prove that marijuana use itself increases the risk of psychosis, a category of several disorders with schizophrenia being the most commonly known.


That part of the article pretty much says it all, doesn't it?!! It science, if you can't prove it then it remains just a theory like the thousands of other theories that exist.

MJ is like any other drug. Handle it properly and use it under a doc's care and guidance, and you can benefit from it. Currently, here in London, Canada, the Pain Clinic associated with the London Health Sciences Centre and University of Western Ontario, is conducting an open label study of MJ.

They are comparing the benefits and side effects of MJ with other approved drugs for pain. They know it works in this situation but they want to compare its use to the other drugs. Like the neuro who is in charge of the trial told me, they know it works but want to know as much as possible about the drug...and they treat MJ just like any other drug, leaving the politics behind. The neuro told me a couple of weeks ago that it will be another 1 1/2 years before they have the study results published.

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Postby agate » Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:58 pm

However, The Lancet, where the study was published, is one of the most highly respected medical journals in the world, if not THE most highly respected....
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Postby HarryZ » Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:53 am

agate wrote:However, The Lancet, where the study was published, is one of the most highly respected medical journals in the world, if not THE most highly respected....


The respectability of The Lancet doesn't make the information correct....or incorrect. The authors of the study stated that they could not prove that MJ was the reason they got the results that they did. Making that comment was probably required by the editor of The Lancet since their wasn't any scientific proof that by using MJ, it resulted in what they discovered.

You have to remember that MJ is like any other drug...use it properly and you can benefit. Abuse it and you are inviting a whole lot of possible problems. Unfortunately MJ's possible benefits for patients are always clouded by the politics surrounding the drug. That's one of the reasons they are performing this study here in London....to scientifically look at any possible side effects that patients may have without worrying about the politics.

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Postby viper498 » Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:57 pm

Harry, Exactly correct.

What a stupid study. I mean they don't even say it is fact. The come right out and say they don't really know whether MJ causes phychosis or not. OK, then why publish the paper? There are many things that we all don't know, tell us something that you have discovered, that is scientific fact, and that really matters. Not this stupid research. I could publish a paper and say that MS is caused by Alien X-rays that they are beaming in to our atmosphere at specific people for research purposes, and then follow up at the end and say "well we don't know for sure if that is what causes it or not, but this could be a cause??" . haha

Also, I've had several friends that have used MJ for a long time. They are very well balanced, and probably more so than I. So at least with them, I don't see any evidence of a detrimental effect that MJ is having or has had on them.

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Postby Loobie » Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:36 pm

I agree that the study is BS. Everything is "may" or "could". Now I have something to say to anyone who has not smoked that thinks they know what the "demon weed" does to people. I'll agree with some of the comments on here about lethargy and amotivation, but only in heavy users. I have used marijuana every night since about a year after I got diagnosed. My Avonex side FX were so bad that I tried it on advice from a friend. I hadn't smoked weed in probably 15 years to that point. It helped ALOT and allowed me to stay on Avonex for many years until it finally started making me depressed.

I am an every day user and:

I hold a full time job as an engineering manager of a 55 mil. a year company.

I exercise EVERY day.

I interact with my family as much as I ever did.

I do things that need done as much as I ever did (sometimes with many more breaks).

The list could go on. There is a HUGE difference between a stoner and someone using marijuana for symptom relief. I never, ever smoke during the day. The two or three times I have taken an extended break in the last few years have always resulted in me going back to using in the evenings because things that it relieved got worse. Christ, it GIVES me the energy I need to forge ahead and stay on course with my regimen.

There is a massive difference in my attitude towards pot compared to when I was using it for fun as a kid. I don't ever have the urge to smoke except when it's time to go to bed. Painting with a broad brush is the big reason it never gets taken seriously in terms of studies. Did you all read about the study they have already tried? They couldn't get good placebo control because those who were on it, knew it. But when they stopped the trial, there were many protests because of the symptom relief people were getting. There is NOTHING better for tremor or for when your body is "vibrating".

I think instead of taking Antivert ($60.00/mth), Baclofen ($60.00/mth) and Ditropan XL ($60.00/mth.) I'll stick with my weed (about $30.00/mth). The quality of life issues aside, you just can't judge a drug because you "know" what it will do before you try it.
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Postby robbie » Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:56 pm

There is a HUGE difference between a stoner and someone using marijuana for symptom relief.

Just one sentence Loobie and you could not have said it better..
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Postby Lyon » Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:29 pm

I guess when I read that article I could only wonder why, of all things, pot has always brought out so much closed minded paranoia from the public and medical establishment?

The mentality behind "Reefer Madness" seems continue, generation after generation, while hideously worse man made drugs are just frowned upon.

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Symptom treatment vs. disease treatment

Postby mormiles » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:30 pm

Every comment on this thread pronounces the differences between MSers who seek to treat MS causative factors and those who believe the BS their mainstream, big-pharma-hornswoggled neurologists have cruelly rammed down their throats. Don't lie down and take it without a fight, either delaying progression or making yourselves comfortable while waiting for the "inevitable." That sentence of MS inevitability is false, and accepting it is submitting to a huge con job.

From this thread's comments, it's fair to say that the consensus on the weed article is that it lacks credibility. When was the last time your neuro admitted to you that the autoimmune model of MS is an unproven theory? Yet all the "cutting edge" research and drug development is based on that unproven theory. New, risky, very expensive drugs...and which one of them is supposed to actually treat MS, not just delay progression, not just suppress the immune system, not just treat symptoms? Where MS is concerned, evidence-based medicine has a gargantuan credibility problem.

I still say, if the weed factor stands between you and recovery by calming you down too much, snuff it out even if it is making you feel better.
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Re: Symptom treatment vs. disease treatment

Postby HarryZ » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:54 pm

Mormiles,

When was the last time your neuro admitted to you that the autoimmune model of MS is an unproven theory? Yet all the "cutting edge" research and drug development is based on that unproven theory. New, risky, very expensive drugs...and which one of them is supposed to actually treat MS, not just delay progression, not just suppress the immune system, not just treat symptoms? Where MS is concerned, evidence-based medicine has a gargantuan credibility problem.


Having followed MS research for over 40 years now, I have pretty much had exactly the same opinion as you have just stated....and it has got me some pretty nasty comments on various MS forums over the past few years.

My wife's former neuro (still is head of the MS Clinic she goes to here in London ON) told her about 7 years ago that the docs were quite disappointed in the CRABs and that they simply weren't doing what they thought and were told they could do for MS. But he would never state this publicly and told Marg this because she has been a patient at this clinic for 35 years and she is a RN. This clinic continually pushes the CRABs on the patients and is constantly running clinical trials for most of the drugs coming down the pipeline. Why? Because it brings in a lot of revenue for the clinic.

It's mostly about the money and in the world of MS medicine, they don't receive nearly enough of that compared to disease like cancer, AIDS etc.

Harry
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