Looking 4 articles that refute the MS/amalgam/mercury connec

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Looking 4 articles that refute the MS/amalgam/mercury connec

Postby eric593 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:56 pm

Hi all

I have a naturopathic doctor who is sending me information that suggests a connection between MS and almagam fillings, or heavy metal toxicity.

I lost all my old articles - does anyone have any really good research that refutes that connection between amalgams and MS?

Thanks. I've never had an amalgam filling but I know he'll start saying that I might have picked up a mercury or heavy metal toxicity elsewhere.
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Postby RuSmolikova » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:25 am

I find this review quite useful...
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... cs/ms.html

Please, note that "no scientific study has demonstrated that removing amalgam fillings helps patients with multiple sclerosis or any other ailment."
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Postby HarryZ » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:17 pm

RuSmolikova wrote:I find this review quite useful...
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... cs/ms.html

Please, note that "no scientific study has demonstrated that removing amalgam fillings helps patients with multiple sclerosis or any other ailment."


While it is true that no real scientific studies have been done to prove the amalgam theory brought forth by some docs, I wouldn't spend two seconds reading anything posted by Stephen Barrett. (don't call him a doctor because he is not licensed.) This guy is a fraud himself and has been found guilty of misrepresentation about his medical credentials. He used to go around the country, testifying as an expert medical witness until they discovered that he was lying about almost everything. Under cross examination, he admitted on the stand that he really didn't have any association with the medical organizations that he had always stated he did.

Here is but one link that I kept about this jerk!

http://www.quackpotwatch.org/

Harry
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Postby RuSmolikova » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:52 pm

Many thanks for the info! 8O
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Postby cheerleader » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:03 pm

Eric-
Check out this thread for some heated debate...

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-3898.html

search "amalgam" in the forums for further info-
best,
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby HarryZ » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:49 pm

AC,

I've read a number of similar articles like those of the link you posted here in ThisIsMs but several of them seem to repeat the "nonstatisically significant" comment at the end with the final note, "further study is required".

That sort of leaves everything up in the air with those on each side of the fence continuing to say "yes" and "no" as to whether amalgam fillings contribute to MS. It may not help a person with MS to have this problem but I really wonder if it has anything to do with the underlying cause.

Harry
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Postby cheerleader » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:01 pm

Hey Harry-
Glad to see you posting. Hope you're well.
You're right about the "up in the air" nature of that study. No answers, more questions. Just like MS!

"Underlying cause" may be different for every MSer. For some it's a Cpn infection, others a hep. vaccine, a case of mono, a tick bite, a car accident, sinusitis, or mercury amalgams. There are as many straws to break the camel's proverbial back as there are camels....that's why this site has so many threads.

If you read the entire thread I copied, Katie believed her MS began after a leaky amalgam. She had her amalgams removed and was feeling better. Others were quick to criticize her, but if it worked for her, maybe she's right! As far as curing MS, I have no clue...but calming MS and slowing it down can maybe be achieved, if the instigators to immune hyperactivity can be isolated.

My husband still has his 12 amalgams. He decided not to pursue the removal. He's been stable this year, with no flares or progression. A day at a time.
best,
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby HarryZ » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:14 pm

Hi Alcott,

cheerleader wrote:Hey Harry-
Glad to see you posting. Hope you're well.
You're right about the "up in the air" nature of that study. No answers, more questions. Just like MS!


I'm doing quite well these days...having joined a fitness club, losing some pounds, reducing my blood pressure and generally feeling better all over. I'm still adjusting to my new "single" life after losing Marg. I guess after being married to someone for 32 years, you have a few changes to make in your daily life!

"Underlying cause" may be different for every MSer. For some it's a Cpn infection, others a hep. vaccine, a case of mono, a tick bite, a car accident, sinusitis, or mercury amalgams. There are as many straws to break the camel's proverbial back as there are camels....that's why this site has so many threads.


I agree with you 100% on that! I've seen many different beginnings of MS with various people over the years and almost every one has had something different happen to "spark" the disease.

If you read the entire thread I copied, Katie believed her MS began after a leaky amalgam. She had her amalgams removed and was feeling better. Others were quick to criticize her, but if it worked for her, maybe she's right! As far as curing MS, I have no clue...but calming MS and slowing it down can maybe be achieved, if the instigators to immune hyperactivity can be isolated.


I've seen all sides of the story on having the amalgam removed. Some feel better, others experience no change while others become much worse, Sound familiar with this disease?!

My husband still has his 12 amalgams. He decided not to pursue the removal. He's been stable this year, with no flares or progression. A day at a time.
best,
AC


Let's hope he remains stable. The longer, the better.

Take care.

Harry
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Postby eric593 » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Thanks everyone.

I think the theory behind amalgam/mercury toxicity is that the amalgam constantly leaks mercury out through the grinding/eating process. I think believers think that accounts for the relapsing/remitting nature of MS as exposure continues in episodes throughout a person's life. Is that right?

But I would think that someone would have to have constant exposure to mercury outside of amalgams if they were going to replicate the relapsing/remitting pattern that I think is attributed to being caused by the fillings constantly leaking out mercury. That's assuming the amalgam theory holds merit.

But I've moved many many many times over the years so there's no way I've had a repeated environmental exposure to mercury, so I don't think that I could even repeat the chronic exposure theory of amalgams in an external environment.

I happen to like Stephen Barrett and his research actually. I know the counterattack against him, but I still happen to think his research is pretty good.

The research I've been given indicates that spinal taps on 10 MS patients both directly before and within 24-48 hours after amalgam filling removals showed a dramatic change in proteins and banding in the spinal fluid of all patients.

I'm trying to figure out how and why that would happen. Firstly, I would have thought that even the removal of the fillings might cause more mercury leakage, but these subsequent spinal taps were done so soon after, and all showed this similar absence of bands of proteins that had been on the earlier ones.

I wonder if anyone has an explanation for this?

I have no idea if amalgam fillings can cause an MS-like state. I know it didn't for ME since I've never had any fillings. I'm just trying to figure out if that would rule out heavy metal (or mercury at least) toxicity from other sources since I don't have the same chronic exposure as an amalgam filling holder would have that would lead to relapses and ongoing exposure. That's assuming there's any merit to mercury leakage from fillings which I'm not sure about, although I certainly think mercury toxicity causes neurological symptoms. Whether amalgams do, I don't know. Whether you could posit a mercury toxicity outside of amalgams is even more farfetched, I don't know either, especially in an ongoing effect on the body like RRMS.
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Amalgam

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:35 am

How can we rationalize that folks without fillings (like eric here) and cases of pediatric MS (even if they have fillings, haven't had time for longterm exposure to leakage) still have MS?
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:29 am

different people's "ms" have different causes, i'd venture. umbrella term. no specific dx test, so no specific cause to cover all scenarios.
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Postby HarryZ » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:42 am

Hi Eric,

I happen to like Stephen Barrett and his research actually. I know the counterattack against him, but I still happen to think his research is pretty good.


Well, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that comment and my opinion comes from personal communication that I have had with Mr. Barrett.

When Prokarin (alternative medication for MS symptoms) first appeared around 2000, I was directed to Quackwatch and read Barrett's write-up about it. It was a brutal attack on the drug, filled with false comments and factually incorrect information. I eventually discovered that he didn't even have the decency to contact the doctors involved with Prokarin at the time and ask them to explain or substantiate information about the drug. When I pointed this out to him, he became rather defensive and arrogant. Barrett did eventually change several of his comments on the website after I provided him with factual information that destroyed his false comments.

The point I am making here is that if Barrett was so sloppy and inaccurate with his information on Prokarin, how can one trust any information that he has written about other medical products or procedures? It was pretty obvious that he didn't take the time of day to research his data about Prokarin. For me, his credibility doesn't exist.

Take care.

Harry
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Postby cheerleader » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:59 am

Harry...
so glad you are taking care of yourself. I know Marg would be proud of you! You are a brave example for all the caretakers on this board. Interesting info you shared on your conversation with Mr. Barrett. I've often bristled at his dismissive tone.

Hey Eric-
Is this the study you refer to?
http://www.thorne.com/media/dentalamalgams.pdf

By dentist Hal Huggins, leading proponent in amalgam removal. Not peer reviewed, but interesting. I have no idea how he got those results.

I got my husband on a liver and intestinal cleanse immediately after diagnosis. (his regimen is posted on the "regimens" thread) Most mercury and metals can be excreted thru the digestive system. I'm sure your naturopathic doc will have good suggestions. Also watch your tuna and fish intake. Once a week is OK, but more can lead to problems in some people. Like most things in MS, mercury could be an issue for some, not others.
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby Grumpster » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:02 pm

I discussed this with my neuro and dentist. The dentist said that removing the amalgam fillings would actually expose me to more mercury and heavy metal than leaving them in. The neuro also said she doubted any connection but offered a heavy metals test to examine the possibility of some active heavy metal contamination. The test results showed no measurable amounts of heavy metals in my blood stream. I was satisfied after that. I have 5-6 amalgam fillings.

You may want to pursue the test and speak to your dentist. It makes some sense that drilling out those fillings would expose you to a lot of heavy metals. Good luck.
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Postby eric593 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:01 pm

Yes, that is the article, thanks. I didn't know if it was peer reviewed or not, but then they actually show pics of the spinal fluid results so that seems black and white. Only 4 people but still, to have all four have such changes. No one speaks of the significance of the changes though, which is really key also.

Grumpster - what kind of heavy metal test did you have done? Just a blood test?

I don't have any amalgam fillings so that isn't a problem for me.

Cheerleader, I'll check out your detox regime and maybe try that, just to see if it makes any difference to my health. Thanks!
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